RE: I'm getting confirmed Catholic...
November 26, 2013 at 9:09 am
(This post was last modified: November 26, 2013 at 10:05 am by The Reality Salesman01.)
(November 25, 2013 at 10:36 pm)Wunsbee Wrote: Do I (sound like you at 16)? How so? I actually debate people all the time and I can defend my atheism but my mother doesn't care about logic, might as well defend my view to a brick wall...
That's good that you debate people all the time. I say that you remind me of myself because I was raised in a hardcore Christian home in Texas. My mom is an absolute loon when it comes to the things she's willing to believe, and doesn't understand logic or how to apply it to any proposition whatsoever. So, I get what you're saying. You will always find yourself arguing ad nauseam with people when you are trying to reason them out of a belief that they didn't reason themselves into. Much of this religion mumbo-jumbo is more psychological than you may think, so you have to approach them humbly and openly at times so as not to scare them. A religious belief is flimsy. It's like a house of cards. The foundation is faith. For the most part, religious people don't even think about their faith. You challenging their beliefs is like a stiff breeze in the direction of thier flimsy structure. They're programmed to throw up an automatic defense, and they'll grasp for anything to do so, so long is it makes sense to them. They won't hesitate to throw logic out the window, but remember, they don't know that logic should even apply or matter! Try using the socratic method. People that have religious beliefs love to make knowledge claims. They love to pretend to know things they do not, and in fact, cannot know. Socrates dedicated his life to finding these people, and exposing their ignorance, and for the most part, all he would have to do is ask questions, and then offer them inferences that he would derrive from their statements. Ultimately the person making the claims will find themselves refuting their own statements.
However, religious people are a weird breed. Inside their mind is a safe. Sealed inside is their belief in God. They've lost the combination long ago, and when you talk to these people, you are literally trying as many combinations as you can think of to crack the safe, and expose the contents of the safe for the hoax that lies within. When you think of it this way, it's really no surpise that such a task would prove to be frustrating. Nevertheless, each combination you think of makes YOU sharper. Read books, practice on here...and whatever you do...stand your ground. There's a thread going that's actually dedicated to this very thing (talking about your Atheism to religious familiies). I don't know if anyone has referred you yet, but here:
http://atheistforums.org/thread-22116.html
Welcome to the forums, and relax. There's nothing scary about going to mass or Sunday service. It's actually quite entertaining to me now. It takes me back to when I was a child, willing to believe anything. I'm amazed at how many adults continue to believe what I worked out at your age to be a joke. I read The Bible because it's a tool. Christians will bring it up against you. It helps to know the things that are in the book. Christians know lots of scriptures that make them feel good. What they don't count on is that you will know those too, but you also know the ones that they've ignored. The instructions from their God that blatantly endorse slavery, stoning your wives, and killing your children should they talk back. These are all tools that will broaden the amount of combinations you can try on the safe. Somebody hacked into mine, and I am eternally thankful. Faith is a virus, a mental disorder. Either ignore it, or intervene. The choice is yours. I'm available anytime you wanna chit-chat. Hit me up with a PM or something if you want. See ya around the forums. Welcome!
(November 25, 2013 at 10:12 pm)Wunsbee Wrote:(November 25, 2013 at 10:06 pm)Minimalist Wrote: Go through the motions. They can't make you believe in their bullshit.
I hate bing dishonest at church, makes me so anxious. I have to constantly lie when I'm there and it sucks because even with the crazy beliefs there are some nice people there.
Of course there are nice people there. But remember, offense is taken, not given. I'm not saying you should walk into church and challenge your pastor to a debate on Sunday morning (would be awesome thought), but the entire system that church is founded upon rests on a dishonest foundation. In church, respect their opinions in the same way you would respect that somebody thinks their kids are beautiful. But outside, should they impose their beliefs on you and extend them beyond their subjective opinion and into your objective reality, rip them to shreads. People deserve dignity, beliefs do not. Slavery was believed to be ok at some point. The oppression of women was too, and remains that way in some countries. If nobody is willing to throw the bullshit flag, bad beliefs will consume our society. Have at 'em hoss.