RE: What the God debate is really about
March 11, 2014 at 2:10 pm
(This post was last modified: March 11, 2014 at 2:11 pm by Neo-Scholastic.)
(March 10, 2014 at 9:55 pm)Pickup_shonuff Wrote: …what we're discussing here are only the metaphysical presumptions both atheists and theists are to some extent forced to make at the very bottom level of reasoning, or as their called, "first principles." What religion does from there is try to blur the lines between our subjective philosophies and objective facts about the world. …they can only argue that this extends beyond their own unsubstantiated…opinion, that is, their subjective experiences…by meeting the reasonable demand of empirical evidence...[emphasis added)
Whoa, whoa, whoa! Religion is not the only culprit here. Atheist members blur those lines all the time.
Knowledge comes from reason applied to experience. People need first principles in order to gain knowledge. First principles include:
1) There is only one reality.
2) Our senses do not deceive us.
3) Sound reasoning yields truths about reality.
4) Truths about reality are universal; they do not vary between individuals
5) Knowledge requires someone that knows.
6) Something that is cannot also not be.
7) Out of nothing, nothing comes.
8) That which does not begin cannot have an end, i.e. infinite regress.
Counterfactuals of the above refute themselves. Therefore any line of reasoning that concludes by denying one or more of these principles is both absurd and nihilistic. It is an unfortunate fact that, many AF members, all atheists, are so hell-bent (pun intended) on winning debates that they willingly promote incoherent ideas, like eliminative materialism and subjectivism.
