RE: Christians, what is your VERY BEST arguments for the existence of God?
April 2, 2010 at 2:43 pm
(This post was last modified: April 2, 2010 at 3:36 pm by roundsquare.)
Padriac thanks for your response first of all. now without time to spare lets take a look at what you said. you said that quantum events happen without a cause, meaning they are acausal. thus u conclude that premise 1 of the kca has been defeated. well then, care to give us a list these acausal quantum events? atheists usually have virtual particle formation that lead to hawking radiation in mind when they talk of acausal events. however they are not these particles arent uncaused. they are fluctuations of the energy vacuum. the quantum vacuum wherein they form is not nothing. it is a sea of energy. so in quantum physics as in everyday experience there are always causes. there is no known exception to the causal principle. then you said that there isnt enough evidence to think that the causal principles applied prior to the big bang. but why would we think it didnt apply before the big bang? its a principle that permeates every aspect of normal day experience even the subatomic level. can you provide valid reasons as to why it might not apply before the big bang. maybe you are under the impression that the causal principal is akin to a law of nature, like the boyles law, or entropy which only hold within our universe. but the causal principle is not a physical law of nature, but a metaphysical principle. this principle is not contigent on any property of the universe, so why wouldnt it apply prior to the big bang?
Tavarish to my philosophical argument against an eternal universe you say that i am again assuming the causal principle was applicable prior to the big bang. its not clear to me how i have assumed this, infact how can i do this when im dealing with a eternal universe and not a finite one? moving on you are yet to deal with the philosophical argument ive presented. your claim that i said there is a God because everything has a cause is at best a terrible distortion of what i actually said. refer to the relevant post to see what i said. as a result your counter analogy of a unicorn fails as it doesnt deal with the kca but a caricature of it. as to your objections regarding my argument from id, it is irrelevant that natural systems replicate, natural systems still are ordered complexities with interworking interacting parts that are no less complex. and these sort of complexity has never been observed to arise apart from an intelligent cause. your driftwood example of complexity doesnt come close, infact it is a categorical error to compare it with biological systems or a pocket watch. evolutionist have never provided evidence for evolution producing biological complexity. instead theyve only provided handwaving and bedtime stories, and what james shapiro call wishfull speculation. as to your genetic similarities argument it can just as well be better used as an argument for the creator. we should expect a designer to use similar designs in his different inventions. also if genes from different organisms were utterly different what would we eat. genetic similarity between organisms allow our bodies to digest and use the food we eat.
genetic similarities has raised challenges for evolution, because there have been situations where phylogenetic tree based on gene similarity doesnt rhyme with the fossil record.
Tavarish to my philosophical argument against an eternal universe you say that i am again assuming the causal principle was applicable prior to the big bang. its not clear to me how i have assumed this, infact how can i do this when im dealing with a eternal universe and not a finite one? moving on you are yet to deal with the philosophical argument ive presented. your claim that i said there is a God because everything has a cause is at best a terrible distortion of what i actually said. refer to the relevant post to see what i said. as a result your counter analogy of a unicorn fails as it doesnt deal with the kca but a caricature of it. as to your objections regarding my argument from id, it is irrelevant that natural systems replicate, natural systems still are ordered complexities with interworking interacting parts that are no less complex. and these sort of complexity has never been observed to arise apart from an intelligent cause. your driftwood example of complexity doesnt come close, infact it is a categorical error to compare it with biological systems or a pocket watch. evolutionist have never provided evidence for evolution producing biological complexity. instead theyve only provided handwaving and bedtime stories, and what james shapiro call wishfull speculation. as to your genetic similarities argument it can just as well be better used as an argument for the creator. we should expect a designer to use similar designs in his different inventions. also if genes from different organisms were utterly different what would we eat. genetic similarity between organisms allow our bodies to digest and use the food we eat.
genetic similarities has raised challenges for evolution, because there have been situations where phylogenetic tree based on gene similarity doesnt rhyme with the fossil record.
Quote:Some minds are like concrete thoroughly mixed up and permanently set.