Our server costs ~$56 per month to run. Please consider donating or becoming a Patron to help keep the site running. Help us gain new members by following us on Twitter and liking our page on Facebook!
Current time: July 19, 2025, 2:07 am

Thread Rating:
  • 0 Vote(s) - 0 Average
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
What the God debate is really about
#52
RE: What the God debate is really about
(March 14, 2014 at 6:09 pm)ChadWooters Wrote: Our senses do not deceive us.

Technically, this one is not self-evident; however, further reflection reveals that it must be the case for there to be knowledge. Since all knowledge comes from reason applied to experience, it follows that no knowledge could be gained if sense data did not correspond with reality. Illusions happen when people misinterpret what their senses tell them. For example, everyone knows a straight stick looks bent when placed halfway into water. Someone could interpret this sense data to mean that the stick is actually bent. The sense data is not wrong; the viewer is merely mistaken about what he thinks he sees. By adding his store of sense data he can come to know about light refraction. If sense data was deceptive then he could not compare former experiences with current and future ones to distinguish between how things appear and how they actually are. Illusions also tell us not only about what we see, but how our brains interpret what we see. A correct interpretation of sense data, one that accounts for how things appear AND the viewer to which things appear gives us knowledge about both.

I think you're confusing self-refuting with self-evident in much of your list. However, this one stuck out. Since you're a dualist, the cause of our behaviors is not an empirical fact. The truth of what we perceive occurs in an other-world to which we have no sense data as to its substance and operation. So you can never close the loop here as you can never have sense access to both the perceived and that which perceives. It would seem a necessity of your worldview that true knowledge of sense data is impossible. I don't see how you can get around that.

[Image: extraordinarywoo-sig.jpg]
Reply



Messages In This Thread
What the God debate is really about - by Mudhammam - March 9, 2014 at 1:08 pm
What the God debate is really about - by Rampant.A.I. - March 9, 2014 at 1:48 pm
RE: What the God debate is really about - by Mudhammam - March 9, 2014 at 2:49 pm
RE: What the God debate is really about - by *Deidre* - March 9, 2014 at 3:01 pm
RE: What the God debate is really about - by Mudhammam - March 9, 2014 at 3:29 pm
RE: What the God debate is really about - by *Deidre* - March 10, 2014 at 12:40 am
RE: What the God debate is really about - by Mudhammam - March 10, 2014 at 1:23 am
RE: What the God debate is really about - by fr0d0 - March 9, 2014 at 5:02 pm
RE: What the God debate is really about - by Rayaan - March 9, 2014 at 6:19 pm
RE: What the God debate is really about - by Mudhammam - March 9, 2014 at 6:23 pm
RE: What the God debate is really about - by Rayaan - March 9, 2014 at 10:04 pm
RE: What the God debate is really about - by Mudhammam - March 10, 2014 at 12:27 am
RE: What the God debate is really about - by *Deidre* - March 10, 2014 at 8:19 am
RE: What the God debate is really about - by Mudhammam - March 10, 2014 at 9:05 am
RE: What the God debate is really about - by *Deidre* - March 10, 2014 at 10:11 am
RE: What the God debate is really about - by Whateverist - March 10, 2014 at 10:28 am
RE: What the God debate is really about - by *Deidre* - March 10, 2014 at 11:30 am
RE: What the God debate is really about - by Whateverist - March 10, 2014 at 4:10 pm
RE: What the God debate is really about - by Mudhammam - March 10, 2014 at 4:15 pm
RE: What the God debate is really about - by *Deidre* - March 10, 2014 at 1:29 pm
RE: What the God debate is really about - by *Deidre* - March 10, 2014 at 4:41 pm
RE: What the God debate is really about - by Whateverist - March 10, 2014 at 5:56 pm
RE: What the God debate is really about - by Silver - March 10, 2014 at 1:43 pm
RE: What the God debate is really about - by Rayaan - March 10, 2014 at 4:16 pm
RE: What the God debate is really about - by *Deidre* - March 10, 2014 at 6:05 pm
RE: What the God debate is really about - by Whateverist - March 10, 2014 at 6:12 pm
RE: What the God debate is really about - by Mudhammam - March 10, 2014 at 9:55 pm
RE: What the God debate is really about - by Whateverist - March 10, 2014 at 11:36 pm
What the God debate is really about - by Rampant.A.I. - March 10, 2014 at 10:40 pm
RE: What the God debate is really about - by *Deidre* - March 11, 2014 at 12:10 am
RE: What the God debate is really about - by Whateverist - March 11, 2014 at 10:30 am
RE: What the God debate is really about - by Rayaan - March 11, 2014 at 10:41 pm
RE: What the God debate is really about - by Angrboda - March 11, 2014 at 8:33 pm
RE: What the God debate is really about - by Mudhammam - March 11, 2014 at 6:18 pm
RE: What the God debate is really about - by Mudhammam - March 12, 2014 at 2:00 am
RE: What the God debate is really about - by Rayaan - March 12, 2014 at 5:01 am
RE: What the God debate is really about - by Angrboda - March 14, 2014 at 8:30 pm

Possibly Related Threads...
Thread Author Replies Views Last Post
  Religious debate via Meme Silver 324 72879 November 12, 2018 at 1:24 pm
Last Post: Mystic
  Debate: God & Morality: William Lane Craig vs Erik Wielenberg Jehanne 16 4540 March 2, 2018 at 8:06 pm
Last Post: Amarok
  Debate: God Exists Adventurer 339 79219 March 31, 2017 at 3:53 pm
Last Post: pocaracas
  Should we be following scholars debate. Mystic 14 4169 March 23, 2016 at 1:04 am
Last Post: The Atheist
  Debate between me, myself and I! Mystic 22 7171 January 4, 2016 at 3:47 pm
Last Post: CapnAwesome
  If in the end, you found that god really existed... Pyrrho 33 8395 June 4, 2015 at 11:43 pm
Last Post: The Valkyrie
  Is God really real or are people simply deluded? RobertE 117 24531 March 14, 2015 at 2:14 pm
Last Post: IATIA
  Help! I can't decide which is REALLY God's word! Mudhammam 1 1493 March 1, 2015 at 7:49 pm
Last Post: dyresand
  Any Theists on AF, I Challenge You to a Debate on the Existence of God RonaldReagansGhost666 253 66705 January 31, 2015 at 4:31 pm
Last Post: helyott
Lightbulb OPEN DEBATE: Religion effects on health Aractus 37 9017 December 6, 2014 at 1:32 am
Last Post: pigsworld



Users browsing this thread: 1 Guest(s)