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God: No magic required
RE: God: No magic required
(April 1, 2014 at 3:13 pm)lweisenthal Wrote: It's been two months since my last post. I thought that I'd said all of that which was relevant to the points I was trying to make and that I had reached the point of just going around and around with my various critics.

So I resolved to save bandwidth, until I had something new to offer.

A couple of weeks ago, that which has been termed one of the most important discoveries in the history of science was announced.

http://blogs.scientificamerican.com/gues...-now-what/

I now view the existence of God as not only a far out speculative possibility but as a physical science certainty.

Let me emphasize that it's important not to confuse "God" with doctrines or dogmas. For the sake of this conversation, let's discard traditional views of God, which are all wrapped up in doctrines and dogma, and redefine God.

God is not necessarily the creator of all things visible and invisible, though he may or may not be the creator of some things visible and invisible. God is a higher order of sentient consciousness, with whom other sentient beings are capable of communicating, to their great personal benefit. God is not necessarily singular. I think that there probably are plural Gods in the multiverse -- perhaps near infinite numbers of such beings.

I've stated before that I believe there is little or no credible evidence that God answers prayers for physical miracles. I personally believe that praying for peace (or cancer cures) is a fruitless waste of time, for both God and humans. But there is enormous empirical evidence that God routinely and dependably answers prayers for such things as fortitude, solace, liberation from substance abuse, improved personal morality, courage, and perseverance. These latter prayers are of enormous importance and enormous personal benefit, and, by the standards of objective peer review medical research, improve happiness, healthiness, and longevity.

The two leading models of the multiverse, which now appears to be a likely reality are (1) an infinite universe, with the same physical principles of our own, or (2) an infinite number of parallel universes, with different physical principles than our own. Either of these possibilities makes the existence of God(s) a physical certainty.

Once you move out 10^10^29 meters from earth, you have every conceivable arrangement of atoms, both qualitatively and in terms of geometry. Beyond that point, you begin to duplicate things. Once you've doubled this distance, you've got an exact duplicate of everything that ever existed, including you and me. Explanation defies concise summary; if interested start with the above link and move on from there (additional links are on my website, which I'm not permitted to cite on this forum, as it is considered to be "advertising").

The point is, that, in an infinite universe, you will inevitably have super-sentient Boltzmann brains, comprised of both ordinary and dark matter and ordinary and dark energy. It is a mathematical certainty. In infinite parallel universes, you will inevitably have exotic forms of energy, in infinite configurations, also producing Boltzmann brains with powers and capabilities unimaginable on a human scale. This is also a mathematical certainty.

I and literally billions of other people regularly talk to God. In my own case, I needed physical science plausibility to make the sincere effort which is required. Most other people simply need simple faith to make the effort. It works -- unquestionably works.

I personally think that militant denial of God has now become simply another form of neo-luddism.

- Larry Weisenthal/Huntington Beach CA


Some general comments.

Alan Guth and Andrei Linde, the physicists in the article that you linked... both atheists. As are the overwhelming percentage of physicists.

What are you, a non-physicist, seeing in their work that they are not? Why don't you write a scientific paper for peer review on why they are wrong in not seeing evidence for a god?

Quote: But there is enormous empirical evidence that God routinely and dependably answers prayers for such things as fortitude, solace, liberation from substance abuse, improved personal morality, courage, and perseverance

No, there are studies that show that the belief in a god gives people 'such things as fortitude, solace, liberation from substance abuse, improved personal morality, courage, and perseverance'.

There is no question that people's beliefs can give them comfort, courage, etc. But just because someone has a belief that helps them, does not mean that the subject of their belief actually exists.

Correlation does not equal causation.

You'd believe if you just opened your heart" is a terrible argument for religion. It's basically saying, "If you bias yourself enough, you can convince yourself that this is true." If religion were true, people wouldn't need faith to believe it -- it would be supported by good evidence.
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Messages In This Thread
God: No magic required - by lweisenthal - January 16, 2014 at 9:47 pm
RE: God: No magic required - by Minimalist - January 16, 2014 at 9:50 pm
RE: God: No magic required - by truthBtold - January 16, 2014 at 10:04 pm
RE: God: No magic required - by Darkstar - January 16, 2014 at 10:06 pm
RE: God: No magic required - by h4ym4n - February 25, 2015 at 11:03 am
RE: God: No magic required - by Kayenneh - January 16, 2014 at 10:07 pm
RE: God: No magic required - by KichigaiNeko - January 16, 2014 at 10:12 pm
RE: God: No magic required - by truthBtold - January 16, 2014 at 10:12 pm
RE: God: No magic required - by Faith No More - January 16, 2014 at 10:32 pm
RE: God: No magic required - by Cinjin - January 16, 2014 at 10:42 pm
RE: God: No magic required - by MindForgedManacle - January 16, 2014 at 11:15 pm
RE: God: No magic required - by Angrboda - January 16, 2014 at 11:46 pm
RE: God: No magic required - by max-greece - January 17, 2014 at 12:08 am
RE: God: No magic required - by lweisenthal - January 17, 2014 at 4:06 pm
RE: God: No magic required - by lweisenthal - January 17, 2014 at 8:19 pm
RE: God: No magic required - by fr0d0 - April 1, 2014 at 3:54 pm
RE: God: No magic required - by Angrboda - January 17, 2014 at 11:13 pm
RE: God: No magic required - by lweisenthal - January 18, 2014 at 3:20 pm
RE: God: No magic required - by Darkstar - January 18, 2014 at 4:13 pm
RE: God: No magic required - by lweisenthal - January 18, 2014 at 5:03 pm
RE: God: No magic required - by Darkstar - January 18, 2014 at 5:30 pm
RE: God: No magic required - by Angrboda - January 18, 2014 at 6:44 pm
RE: God: No magic required - by lweisenthal - January 25, 2014 at 5:19 pm
RE: God: No magic required - by Mr Greene - January 28, 2014 at 4:26 pm
RE: God: No magic required - by Whateverist - February 2, 2014 at 10:41 pm
RE: God: No magic required - by Mudhammam - January 17, 2014 at 3:10 pm
RE: God: No magic required - by Napoléon - January 17, 2014 at 9:13 pm
RE: God: No magic required - by KichigaiNeko - January 17, 2014 at 9:15 pm
RE: God: No magic required - by Minimalist - January 17, 2014 at 9:23 pm
RE: God: No magic required - by lweisenthal - January 17, 2014 at 9:53 pm
RE: God: No magic required - by Ryantology - January 17, 2014 at 10:55 pm
RE: God: No magic required - by Kayenneh - January 18, 2014 at 1:58 pm
RE: God: No magic required - by LastPoet - January 18, 2014 at 2:26 pm
RE: God: No magic required - by Kayenneh - January 18, 2014 at 2:43 pm
RE: God: No magic required - by Minimalist - January 18, 2014 at 2:46 pm
RE: God: No magic required - by lweisenthal - January 18, 2014 at 6:18 pm
RE: God: No magic required - by Simon Moon - January 28, 2014 at 3:22 pm
RE: God: No magic required - by lweisenthal - January 28, 2014 at 3:30 pm
RE: God: No magic required - by Silver - January 28, 2014 at 3:59 pm
RE: God: No magic required - by lweisenthal - January 28, 2014 at 4:28 pm
RE: God: No magic required - by Silver - January 28, 2014 at 4:33 pm
RE: God: No magic required - by LastPoet - January 28, 2014 at 4:43 pm
RE: God: No magic required - by lweisenthal - January 28, 2014 at 5:23 pm
RE: God: No magic required - by Silver - January 28, 2014 at 5:29 pm
RE: God: No magic required - by Simon Moon - January 28, 2014 at 5:58 pm
RE: God: No magic required - by Simon Moon - January 28, 2014 at 5:06 pm
RE: God: No magic required - by LastPoet - January 18, 2014 at 2:50 pm
RE: God: No magic required - by Kayenneh - January 18, 2014 at 5:09 pm
RE: God: No magic required - by lweisenthal - January 18, 2014 at 5:45 pm
RE: God: No magic required - by pineapplebunnybounce - January 18, 2014 at 5:49 pm
RE: God: No magic required - by Kayenneh - January 18, 2014 at 6:18 pm
RE: God: No magic required - by Kayenneh - January 18, 2014 at 8:34 pm
RE: God: No magic required - by Neo-Scholastic - January 25, 2014 at 8:14 pm
RE: God: No magic required - by lweisenthal - January 25, 2014 at 10:48 pm
RE: God: No magic required - by Mudhammam - January 26, 2014 at 2:06 am
RE: God: No magic required - by Mister Agenda - February 3, 2014 at 4:07 pm
RE: God: No magic required - by Angrboda - January 26, 2014 at 1:40 am
RE: God: No magic required - by max-greece - January 26, 2014 at 3:36 am
RE: God: No magic required - by lweisenthal - January 27, 2014 at 4:22 pm
RE: God: No magic required - by max-greece - January 28, 2014 at 3:02 am
RE: God: No magic required - by lweisenthal - January 28, 2014 at 2:51 pm
RE: God: No magic required - by fr0d0 - April 1, 2014 at 4:14 pm
RE: God: No magic required - by Angrboda - January 27, 2014 at 5:28 pm
RE: God: No magic required - by lweisenthal - January 27, 2014 at 6:19 pm
RE: God: No magic required - by Neo-Scholastic - January 28, 2014 at 12:16 am
RE: God: No magic required - by lweisenthal - January 28, 2014 at 2:40 am
RE: God: No magic required - by Thackerie - April 5, 2014 at 10:56 am
RE: God: No magic required - by fr0d0 - April 5, 2014 at 11:06 am
RE: God: No magic required - by Silver - January 28, 2014 at 3:00 pm
RE: God: No magic required - by lweisenthal - January 28, 2014 at 3:21 pm
RE: God: No magic required - by Silver - January 28, 2014 at 3:23 pm
RE: God: No magic required - by lweisenthal - January 28, 2014 at 7:12 pm
RE: God: No magic required - by Simon Moon - January 28, 2014 at 9:23 pm
RE: God: No magic required - by Neo-Scholastic - January 28, 2014 at 7:53 pm
RE: God: No magic required - by Ryantology - January 28, 2014 at 9:39 pm
RE: God: No magic required - by Mudhammam - January 29, 2014 at 1:07 am
RE: God: No magic required - by Esquilax - January 29, 2014 at 1:24 am
RE: God: No magic required - by Neo-Scholastic - January 28, 2014 at 10:55 pm
RE: God: No magic required - by Whateverist - January 29, 2014 at 2:57 am
RE: God: No magic required - by Ryantology - January 28, 2014 at 11:05 pm
RE: God: No magic required - by max-greece - January 29, 2014 at 3:10 am
RE: God: No magic required - by lweisenthal - January 31, 2014 at 6:49 pm
RE: God: No magic required - by Simon Moon - January 31, 2014 at 7:31 pm
RE: God: No magic required - by lweisenthal - January 31, 2014 at 9:51 pm
RE: God: No magic required - by Mister Agenda - February 3, 2014 at 4:20 pm
RE: God: No magic required - by max-greece - February 1, 2014 at 1:42 pm
RE: God: No magic required - by lweisenthal - February 1, 2014 at 4:40 pm
RE: God: No magic required - by Popsicle - February 2, 2014 at 11:23 pm
RE: God: No magic required - by The Reality Salesman - January 30, 2014 at 2:46 pm
RE: God: No magic required - by Angrboda - January 31, 2014 at 10:57 pm
RE: God: No magic required - by lweisenthal - February 1, 2014 at 2:11 am
RE: God: No magic required - by Angrboda - February 1, 2014 at 1:16 pm
RE: God: No magic required - by Whateverist - February 1, 2014 at 2:20 am
RE: God: No magic required - by Assimilate - February 1, 2014 at 2:25 am
RE: God: No magic required - by The Reality Salesman - February 1, 2014 at 12:02 pm
RE: God: No magic required - by Angrboda - February 1, 2014 at 10:00 pm
RE: God: No magic required - by lweisenthal - February 2, 2014 at 12:57 am
RE: God: No magic required - by The Reality Salesman - February 2, 2014 at 1:40 am
RE: God: No magic required - by max-greece - February 2, 2014 at 4:18 am
RE: God: No magic required - by houseofcantor - February 2, 2014 at 4:59 am
RE: God: No magic required - by max-greece - February 2, 2014 at 5:28 am
RE: God: No magic required - by houseofcantor - February 2, 2014 at 5:50 am
RE: God: No magic required - by Angrboda - February 2, 2014 at 9:36 pm
RE: God: No magic required - by Angrboda - February 2, 2014 at 11:50 pm
RE: God: No magic required - by Whateverist - February 3, 2014 at 2:04 am
RE: God: No magic required - by The Reality Salesman - February 3, 2014 at 12:18 am
RE: God: No magic required - by Popsicle - February 3, 2014 at 2:35 pm
RE: God: No magic required - by lweisenthal - February 3, 2014 at 4:06 pm
RE: God: No magic required - by Popsicle - February 3, 2014 at 4:17 pm
RE: God: No magic required - by Mudhammam - February 3, 2014 at 4:43 pm
RE: God: No magic required - by lweisenthal - April 1, 2014 at 3:13 pm
RE: God: No magic required - by Angrboda - April 1, 2014 at 4:21 pm
RE: God: No magic required - by Jackalope - April 1, 2014 at 4:33 pm
RE: God: No magic required - by Chas - April 1, 2014 at 6:20 pm
RE: God: No magic required - by Simon Moon - April 1, 2014 at 8:00 pm
RE: God: No magic required - by Whateverist - April 1, 2014 at 8:49 pm
RE: God: No magic required - by houseofcantor - April 2, 2014 at 7:27 am
God: No magic required - by Rampant.A.I. - April 1, 2014 at 3:22 pm
RE: God: No magic required - by lweisenthal - April 1, 2014 at 3:41 pm
RE: God: No magic required - by Minimalist - April 1, 2014 at 4:05 pm
RE: God: No magic required - by Whateverist - April 1, 2014 at 5:02 pm
RE: God: No magic required - by Jackalope - April 1, 2014 at 5:09 pm
RE: God: No magic required - by fr0d0 - April 1, 2014 at 8:28 pm
RE: God: No magic required - by Angrboda - April 1, 2014 at 8:48 pm
RE: God: No magic required - by Minimalist - April 1, 2014 at 8:21 pm
RE: God: No magic required - by Thackerie - April 5, 2014 at 11:09 am
RE: God: No magic required - by fr0d0 - April 5, 2014 at 12:29 pm
RE: God: No magic required - by Thackerie - April 6, 2014 at 10:20 am
RE: God: No magic required - by max-greece - April 2, 2014 at 1:20 am
RE: God: No magic required - by Minimalist - April 2, 2014 at 1:21 am
RE: God: No magic required - by Whateverist - April 2, 2014 at 12:02 pm
God: No magic required - by Rampant.A.I. - April 2, 2014 at 1:55 am
RE: God: No magic required - by Fidel_Castronaut - April 2, 2014 at 8:47 am
RE: God: No magic required - by Angrboda - April 2, 2014 at 11:15 am
RE: God: No magic required - by ThomM - April 4, 2014 at 3:17 pm
God: No magic required - by Rampant.A.I. - April 5, 2014 at 11:37 am
RE: God: No magic required - by fr0d0 - April 6, 2014 at 2:27 pm
RE: God: No magic required - by Thackerie - April 6, 2014 at 3:07 pm
God: No magic required - by Rampant.A.I. - April 6, 2014 at 3:21 pm
RE: God: No magic required - by lweisenthal - November 7, 2014 at 2:53 pm
RE: God: No magic required - by Esquilax - November 7, 2014 at 3:16 pm
RE: God: No magic required - by lweisenthal - November 7, 2014 at 3:31 pm
RE: God: No magic required - by Esquilax - November 7, 2014 at 4:07 pm
RE: God: No magic required - by robvalue - November 7, 2014 at 4:34 pm
RE: God: No magic required - by Angrboda - November 7, 2014 at 6:19 pm
RE: God: No magic required - by Whateverist - November 7, 2014 at 6:47 pm
RE: God: No magic required - by Whateverist - November 11, 2014 at 8:51 am
RE: God: No magic required - by lweisenthal - November 8, 2014 at 5:44 pm
RE: God: No magic required - by Esquilax - November 8, 2014 at 7:03 pm
RE: God: No magic required - by Whateverist - November 11, 2014 at 9:23 am
RE: God: No magic required - by Tonus - November 11, 2014 at 8:59 am
RE: God: No magic required - by robvalue - November 11, 2014 at 4:54 am
RE: God: No magic required - by strawdawg - November 11, 2014 at 4:12 pm
RE: God: No magic required - by rexbeccarox - November 11, 2014 at 4:50 pm
RE: God: No magic required - by Mudhammam - February 24, 2015 at 4:21 pm
RE: God: No magic required - by lweisenthal - February 24, 2015 at 4:26 pm
RE: God: No magic required - by lweisenthal - February 24, 2015 at 4:17 pm
RE: God: No magic required - by The Reality Salesman - February 24, 2015 at 5:45 pm
RE: God: No magic required - by Whateverist - February 24, 2015 at 9:48 pm
RE: God: No magic required - by Faith No More - February 24, 2015 at 6:35 pm
RE: God: No magic required - by IATIA - February 24, 2015 at 7:13 pm
RE: God: No magic required - by Mudhammam - February 24, 2015 at 9:57 pm
RE: God: No magic required - by Ravenshire - February 24, 2015 at 10:47 pm
RE: God: No magic required - by The Reality Salesman - February 24, 2015 at 11:59 pm
RE: God: No magic required - by dyresand - February 25, 2015 at 12:03 am
RE: God: No magic required - by Norman Humann - February 25, 2015 at 10:34 am
RE: God: No magic required - by Whateverist - February 26, 2015 at 1:42 pm

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