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What if the Romans hadn't killed Jesus?
#16
RE: What if the Romans hadn't killed Jesus?
(April 15, 2014 at 3:24 pm)Stimbo Wrote: We're back to the original question, though. Whether it's cuddly ol' Jesus or some other figurehead, the movement still needs a central sacrificial offering of Yahweh to itself. So could the bad guys in the story possibly have had the free will to change the plot?

Isn't God supposed to know what people are going to do before they do it? All he had to do was make sure his incarnated aspect behaved in a way which was going to guarantee the required results - annoy the Jewish establishment so they'd engineer his execution and recruit Judas Iscariot who would betray him.

On the other hand, God is supposed to have hardened Pharaoh's heart so he could have arranged for the Jews and Romans to crucify Jesus. This eventually led to Christians going round in ever decreasing circles so they can continue to believe that God is good and loves everyone even though he arranges for them to sin.

Why did God Harden Pharaoh's Heart?

Quote:Am I then saying that God Himself actually arranged for Pharaoh to sin?

Yes, in much the same sense that He arranged for Joseph's brothers to sell Joseph into slavery (Genesis 50:20), Satan to attack Job (Job 1:12), Jews and and Romans to crucify Jesus (Acts 2:23), and sin to exist in the first place.

Well, if that's true, how can we explain what seems like a contradiction—that God wills sin which is, by definition, against His will.

Theologians have often handled this paradox by concluding that there are two wills in God, sometimes referred to as God's sovereign will and His revealed (perceptive) will, or His will of command and His will of decree. And also by understanding that in God's view and plan, it is good that there is evil in this world. Note—that is not to say that evil is itself good; only that evil serves a worthy end and is therefore an important and integral part of God's good purposes.
Badger Badger Badger Badger Where are the snake and mushroom smilies?
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Messages In This Thread
What if the Romans hadn't killed Jesus? - by Cyberman - April 15, 2014 at 1:12 pm
RE: What if the Romans hadn't killed Jesus? - by Tobie - April 15, 2014 at 3:16 pm
RE: What if the Romans hadn't killed Jesus? - by Cyberman - April 15, 2014 at 1:43 pm
RE: What if the Romans hadn't killed Jesus? - by Cyberman - April 15, 2014 at 2:22 pm
RE: What if the Romans hadn't killed Jesus? - by Cyberman - April 15, 2014 at 3:24 pm
RE: What if the Romans hadn't killed Jesus? - by Confused Ape - April 15, 2014 at 4:34 pm
RE: What if the Romans hadn't killed Jesus? - by Cyberman - April 15, 2014 at 3:35 pm
RE: What if the Romans hadn't killed Jesus? - by Tobie - April 15, 2014 at 3:38 pm
Re: RE: What if the Romans hadn't killed Jesus? - by KUSA - April 15, 2014 at 6:46 pm
RE: What if the Romans hadn't killed Jesus? - by ThomM - April 16, 2014 at 6:19 pm
RE: What if the Romans hadn't killed Jesus? - by Cyberman - April 16, 2014 at 6:23 pm
RE: What if the Romans hadn't killed Jesus? - by Cato - April 16, 2014 at 6:27 pm
RE: What if the Romans hadn't killed Jesus? - by Brian37 - April 16, 2014 at 7:04 pm
RE: What if the Romans hadn't killed Jesus? - by Cyberman - April 16, 2014 at 7:11 pm
RE: What if the Romans hadn't killed Jesus? - by Brian37 - April 16, 2014 at 7:23 pm
RE: What if the Romans hadn't killed Jesus? - by Lek - April 17, 2014 at 8:36 pm
RE: What if the Romans hadn't killed Jesus? - by Brian37 - April 18, 2014 at 10:08 am
RE: What if the Romans hadn't killed Jesus? - by Cyberman - April 16, 2014 at 7:26 pm
RE: What if the Romans hadn't killed Jesus? - by Brian37 - April 16, 2014 at 7:27 pm
RE: What if the Romans hadn't killed Jesus? - by Cyberman - April 16, 2014 at 7:41 pm
RE: What if the Romans hadn't killed Jesus? - by Brian37 - April 16, 2014 at 8:23 pm
RE: What if the Romans hadn't killed Jesus? - by Cyberman - April 16, 2014 at 8:26 pm
RE: What if the Romans hadn't killed Jesus? - by Cyberman - April 17, 2014 at 6:09 pm
RE: What if the Romans hadn't killed Jesus? - by Cyberman - April 17, 2014 at 8:52 pm
RE: What if the Romans hadn't killed Jesus? - by Lek - April 17, 2014 at 10:44 pm
RE: What if the Romans hadn't killed Jesus? - by ThomM - April 20, 2014 at 7:14 pm
RE: What if the Romans hadn't killed Jesus? - by Cyberman - April 21, 2014 at 10:16 am
RE: What if the Romans hadn't killed Jesus? - by Lek - April 22, 2014 at 11:28 pm
RE: What if the Romans hadn't killed Jesus? - by Lek - April 23, 2014 at 12:00 am
RE: What if the Romans hadn't killed Jesus? - by Cyberman - April 23, 2014 at 9:26 am
RE: What if the Romans hadn't killed Jesus? - by Lek - April 23, 2014 at 9:40 pm
RE: What if the Romans hadn't killed Jesus? - by Cyberman - April 24, 2014 at 10:35 am
RE: What if the Romans hadn't killed Jesus? - by Zidneya - April 23, 2014 at 3:08 am
RE: What if the Romans hadn't killed Jesus? - by Tonus - April 23, 2014 at 6:08 am
RE: What if the Romans hadn't killed Jesus? - by Lek - April 24, 2014 at 12:37 pm
RE: What if the Romans hadn't killed Jesus? - by ThomM - April 24, 2014 at 3:26 pm
RE: What if the Romans hadn't killed Jesus? - by Lek - April 24, 2014 at 6:35 pm
RE: What if the Romans hadn't killed Jesus? - by ThomM - April 24, 2014 at 8:50 pm
RE: What if the Romans hadn't killed Jesus? - by Cyberman - April 24, 2014 at 8:59 pm
RE: What if the Romans hadn't killed Jesus? - by ThomM - April 24, 2014 at 9:38 pm
RE: What if the Romans hadn't killed Jesus? - by Cyberman - April 24, 2014 at 12:51 pm
RE: What if the Romans hadn't killed Jesus? - by Lek - April 24, 2014 at 7:21 pm
RE: What if the Romans hadn't killed Jesus? - by Cyberman - April 24, 2014 at 9:53 pm
RE: What if the Romans hadn't killed Jesus? - by Lek - April 25, 2014 at 9:11 pm
RE: What if the Romans hadn't killed Jesus? - by Lek - April 26, 2014 at 12:44 pm
RE: What if the Romans hadn't killed Jesus? - by Lek - May 5, 2014 at 6:42 pm
RE: What if the Romans hadn't killed Jesus? - by Lek - May 5, 2014 at 8:23 pm
RE: What if the Romans hadn't killed Jesus? - by ThomM - May 10, 2014 at 4:26 pm
RE: What if the Romans hadn't killed Jesus? - by Cato - April 26, 2014 at 2:14 pm
RE: What if the Romans hadn't killed Jesus? - by Lek - April 26, 2014 at 3:50 pm
RE: What if the Romans hadn't killed Jesus? - by Lek - April 26, 2014 at 5:11 pm
RE: What if the Romans hadn't killed Jesus? - by Lek - April 26, 2014 at 8:30 pm
RE: What if the Romans hadn't killed Jesus? - by Cyberman - April 27, 2014 at 11:32 am
RE: What if the Romans hadn't killed Jesus? - by Lek - April 27, 2014 at 4:58 pm
RE: What if the Romans hadn't killed Jesus? - by Cyberman - April 27, 2014 at 5:04 pm
RE: What if the Romans hadn't killed Jesus? - by Lek - April 27, 2014 at 5:08 pm
RE: What if the Romans hadn't killed Jesus? - by Cyberman - April 27, 2014 at 5:31 pm
RE: What if the Romans hadn't killed Jesus? - by Lek - April 27, 2014 at 5:57 pm
RE: What if the Romans hadn't killed Jesus? - by Cyberman - April 27, 2014 at 6:01 pm
RE: What if the Romans hadn't killed Jesus? - by Lek - May 5, 2014 at 8:38 pm
RE: What if the Romans hadn't killed Jesus? - by Cato - May 15, 2014 at 9:34 am

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