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Evolution, religion, and ignorance.
#40
RE: Evolution, religion, and ignorance.
(May 8, 2014 at 1:31 am)Esquilax Wrote: Is it possible to deny evolution and understand what it is at the same time?
There were two things in particular that muddled the issue for me, although they were the result of the same factor: the Watchtower Society is very strict about JWs not reading anything that might lead them astray. It is a point they drive home constantly and they make clear that it's very high on their list of offenses that will get you in trouble. As a good JW I went along with it, and therefore I only had their side of the story. But hey, they had god's ear, so it had to be the truth...

1- The micro/macro issue was a real problem, because I saw them as two distinct "versions" of evolution. Micro-evolution (small changes within a species) was undeniable because it had been observed, but macro-evolution (large changes that turn one species into a different one) was too far-fetched to accept, and had no evidence besides. I can't stress enough that this is the way I (and my fellow JWs, and many theists I have known) saw the issue-- we felt that macro-evolution did NOT describe the effect of many micro changes over time.

This is the kind of misunderstanding that leads to stuff like crocoduck and "a cat has never given birth to a dog." This is what many theists actually believe macro-evolution refers to, and no one is ever going to accept that as being possible. So it's easy to believe that scientists are blinded by their desire to "disprove god" to the extent that they accept ridiculous and unscientific "theories."

2- Quote mining. The JW's creation book is rife with out-of-context quotes meant to give a completely different meaning to a person's words (including the famous partial quote from Darwin regarding the evolution of the eye). Quote-mining is designed to give the impression that scientists recognize how outrageous the theory of evolution is, which makes you wonder why they continue to teach it as "fact." The only possibility is that they are being mislead by Satan into trying to deny the existence of god, to the extent that they prefer to promote utterly ridiculous ideas.

Once I stepped outside of that bubble, the truth about evolution became clearer and the theories made more sense. I think that the micro/macro divide will continue to be used by theists because it represents one of the few gaps that they can work with. "It's just a theory" will be used by the most ignorant of the bunch, but I think it's so easy to show why that is wrong that it will slowly be relegated to the same pile as "if we came from monkeys, why are there still monkeys?" Which is to say, people still use it, but it immediately lets you know that you're dealing with someone who is either ignorant or a moron.
"Well, evolution is a theory. It is also a fact. And facts and theories are different things, not rungs in a hierarchy of increasing certainty. Facts are the world's data. Theories are structures of ideas that explain and interpret facts. Facts don't go away when scientists debate rival theories to explain them. Einstein's theory of gravitation replaced Newton's in this century, but apples didn't suspend themselves in midair, pending the outcome. And humans evolved from ape- like ancestors whether they did so by Darwin's proposed mechanism or by some other yet to be discovered."

-Stephen Jay Gould
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Messages In This Thread
Evolution, religion, and ignorance. - by Esquilax - May 8, 2014 at 1:31 am
RE: Evolution, religion, and ignorance. - by Cato - May 8, 2014 at 5:52 am
RE: Evolution, religion, and ignorance. - by John V - May 8, 2014 at 9:39 am
RE: Evolution, religion, and ignorance. - by Chas - May 8, 2014 at 9:44 am
RE: Evolution, religion, and ignorance. - by John V - May 8, 2014 at 10:07 am
RE: Evolution, religion, and ignorance. - by Esquilax - May 8, 2014 at 10:20 am
RE: Evolution, religion, and ignorance. - by John V - May 8, 2014 at 10:44 am
RE: Evolution, religion, and ignorance. - by Esquilax - May 8, 2014 at 10:50 am
RE: Evolution, religion, and ignorance. - by John V - May 8, 2014 at 11:06 am
RE: Evolution, religion, and ignorance. - by Esquilax - May 8, 2014 at 11:38 am
RE: Evolution, religion, and ignorance. - by John V - May 8, 2014 at 11:58 am
RE: Evolution, religion, and ignorance. - by Esquilax - May 8, 2014 at 12:28 pm
RE: Evolution, religion, and ignorance. - by John V - May 8, 2014 at 12:45 pm
RE: Evolution, religion, and ignorance. - by John V - May 8, 2014 at 1:22 pm
RE: Evolution, religion, and ignorance. - by Cato - May 8, 2014 at 2:05 pm
RE: Evolution, religion, and ignorance. - by Esquilax - May 9, 2014 at 12:39 am
RE: Evolution, religion, and ignorance. - by John V - May 9, 2014 at 7:45 am
RE: Evolution, religion, and ignorance. - by John V - May 8, 2014 at 11:20 am
RE: Evolution, religion, and ignorance. - by Chas - May 8, 2014 at 11:20 am
Evolution, religion, and ignorance. - by Rampant.A.I. - May 8, 2014 at 11:07 am
RE: Evolution, religion, and ignorance. - by Angrboda - May 8, 2014 at 11:43 am
RE: Evolution, religion, and ignorance. - by pocaracas - May 8, 2014 at 11:47 am
Evolution, religion, and ignorance. - by Rampant.A.I. - May 8, 2014 at 12:21 pm
RE: Evolution, religion, and ignorance. - by Bad Wolf - May 8, 2014 at 12:25 pm
Evolution, religion, and ignorance. - by Rampant.A.I. - May 8, 2014 at 12:29 pm
Evolution, religion, and ignorance. - by Rampant.A.I. - May 8, 2014 at 12:48 pm
RE: Evolution, religion, and ignorance. - by Tonus - May 8, 2014 at 1:17 pm
RE: Evolution, religion, and ignorance. - by coldwx - May 8, 2014 at 1:56 pm
RE: Evolution, religion, and ignorance. - by John V - May 8, 2014 at 2:14 pm
RE: Evolution, religion, and ignorance. - by coldwx - May 8, 2014 at 3:32 pm
RE: Evolution, religion, and ignorance. - by Angrboda - May 9, 2014 at 12:08 pm
RE: Evolution, religion, and ignorance. - by Chas - May 9, 2014 at 10:53 am
RE: Evolution, religion, and ignorance. - by Sejanus - May 9, 2014 at 8:24 am
RE: Evolution, religion, and ignorance. - by Sejanus - May 9, 2014 at 8:47 am
RE: Evolution, religion, and ignorance. - by Brian37 - May 9, 2014 at 8:34 am
RE: Evolution, religion, and ignorance. - by John V - May 9, 2014 at 8:54 am
RE: Evolution, religion, and ignorance. - by John V - May 9, 2014 at 10:17 am
RE: Evolution, religion, and ignorance. - by Esquilax - May 9, 2014 at 11:06 am
RE: Evolution, religion, and ignorance. - by John V - May 9, 2014 at 11:59 am
RE: Evolution, religion, and ignorance. - by John V - May 9, 2014 at 12:58 pm
RE: Evolution, religion, and ignorance. - by Cato - May 9, 2014 at 1:15 pm
RE: Evolution, religion, and ignorance. - by John V - May 9, 2014 at 1:29 pm
RE: Evolution, religion, and ignorance. - by Cato - May 9, 2014 at 1:52 pm
RE: Evolution, religion, and ignorance. - by John V - May 9, 2014 at 1:59 pm
RE: Evolution, religion, and ignorance. - by coldwx - May 9, 2014 at 1:52 pm
RE: Evolution, religion, and ignorance. - by John V - May 9, 2014 at 2:07 pm
RE: Evolution, religion, and ignorance. - by coldwx - May 9, 2014 at 4:30 pm
RE: Evolution, religion, and ignorance. - by John V - May 9, 2014 at 1:47 pm
Evolution, religion, and ignorance. - by Rampant.A.I. - May 9, 2014 at 10:29 am
Evolution, religion, and ignorance. - by Rampant.A.I. - May 9, 2014 at 10:44 am
RE: Evolution, religion, and ignorance. - by coldwx - May 9, 2014 at 11:42 am
RE: Evolution, religion, and ignorance. - by Tonus - May 9, 2014 at 12:05 pm
RE: Evolution, religion, and ignorance. - by coldwx - May 9, 2014 at 1:11 pm
RE: Evolution, religion, and ignorance. - by coldwx - May 9, 2014 at 2:07 pm
RE: Evolution, religion, and ignorance. - by coldwx - May 9, 2014 at 2:41 pm
RE: Evolution, religion, and ignorance. - by John V - May 9, 2014 at 12:18 pm
RE: Evolution, religion, and ignorance. - by Chas - May 9, 2014 at 6:07 pm
RE: Evolution, religion, and ignorance. - by John V - May 10, 2014 at 10:11 am
RE: Evolution, religion, and ignorance. - by Chas - May 10, 2014 at 11:05 am
RE: Evolution, religion, and ignorance. - by John V - May 10, 2014 at 12:28 pm
RE: Evolution, religion, and ignorance. - by Chas - May 10, 2014 at 2:35 pm
RE: Evolution, religion, and ignorance. - by John V - May 11, 2014 at 6:00 am
RE: Evolution, religion, and ignorance. - by Chas - May 11, 2014 at 12:56 pm
RE: Evolution, religion, and ignorance. - by Ksa - May 9, 2014 at 11:42 am
Evolution, religion, and ignorance. - by Rampant.A.I. - May 9, 2014 at 12:30 pm
RE: Evolution, religion, and ignorance. - by John V - May 9, 2014 at 1:13 pm
RE: Evolution, religion, and ignorance. - by Tonus - May 9, 2014 at 1:31 pm
Evolution, religion, and ignorance. - by Rampant.A.I. - May 10, 2014 at 12:59 pm
RE: Evolution, religion, and ignorance. - by professor - May 10, 2014 at 5:05 pm
RE: Evolution, religion, and ignorance. - by Esquilax - May 11, 2014 at 8:51 am
RE: Evolution, religion, and ignorance. - by Esquilax - May 12, 2014 at 4:14 pm
RE: Evolution, religion, and ignorance. - by pocaracas - May 12, 2014 at 4:51 pm
RE: Evolution, religion, and ignorance. - by Ksa - May 12, 2014 at 4:21 pm
Evolution, religion, and ignorance. - by Rampant.A.I. - May 10, 2014 at 7:59 pm
RE: Evolution, religion, and ignorance. - by professor - May 11, 2014 at 8:39 am
RE: Evolution, religion, and ignorance. - by professor - May 11, 2014 at 10:57 am
RE: Evolution, religion, and ignorance. - by Cato - May 11, 2014 at 11:09 am
RE: Evolution, religion, and ignorance. - by pocaracas - May 11, 2014 at 11:13 am
RE: Evolution, religion, and ignorance. - by coldwx - May 11, 2014 at 12:04 pm
RE: Evolution, religion, and ignorance. - by Mr Greene - May 11, 2014 at 12:46 pm
RE: Evolution, religion, and ignorance. - by Esquilax - May 11, 2014 at 1:20 pm
RE: Evolution, religion, and ignorance. - by RDK - May 11, 2014 at 1:43 pm
RE: Evolution, religion, and ignorance. - by Esquilax - May 11, 2014 at 2:05 pm
RE: Evolution, religion, and ignorance. - by LastPoet - May 11, 2014 at 12:01 pm
RE: Evolution, religion, and ignorance. - by LastPoet - May 11, 2014 at 12:07 pm
RE: Evolution, religion, and ignorance. - by LastPoet - May 11, 2014 at 12:51 pm
RE: Evolution, religion, and ignorance. - by Esquilax - May 11, 2014 at 2:18 pm
RE: Evolution, religion, and ignorance. - by BoS - May 11, 2014 at 2:19 pm
RE: Evolution, religion, and ignorance. - by RDK - May 11, 2014 at 2:22 pm
RE: Evolution, religion, and ignorance. - by Esquilax - May 11, 2014 at 2:40 pm
RE: Evolution, religion, and ignorance. - by Chas - May 12, 2014 at 5:58 pm
RE: Evolution, religion, and ignorance. - by RDK - May 11, 2014 at 2:30 pm
RE: Evolution, religion, and ignorance. - by RDK - May 11, 2014 at 2:40 pm
RE: Evolution, religion, and ignorance. - by Chas - May 11, 2014 at 5:55 pm
RE: Evolution, religion, and ignorance. - by RDK - May 11, 2014 at 2:57 pm
RE: Evolution, religion, and ignorance. - by Esquilax - May 11, 2014 at 3:06 pm
RE: Evolution, religion, and ignorance. - by Chas - May 11, 2014 at 6:02 pm
RE: Evolution, religion, and ignorance. - by Bad Wolf - May 11, 2014 at 3:06 pm
RE: Evolution, religion, and ignorance. - by RDK - May 11, 2014 at 3:35 pm
RE: Evolution, religion, and ignorance. - by Esquilax - May 11, 2014 at 3:57 pm
RE: Evolution, religion, and ignorance. - by Chas - May 11, 2014 at 6:04 pm
RE: Evolution, religion, and ignorance. - by pocaracas - May 11, 2014 at 3:42 pm
RE: Evolution, religion, and ignorance. - by LastPoet - May 11, 2014 at 4:42 pm
RE: Evolution, religion, and ignorance. - by RDK - May 11, 2014 at 4:50 pm
RE: Evolution, religion, and ignorance. - by coldwx - May 11, 2014 at 4:57 pm
RE: Evolution, religion, and ignorance. - by Bad Wolf - May 11, 2014 at 4:52 pm
RE: Evolution, religion, and ignorance. - by RDK - May 11, 2014 at 4:58 pm
RE: Evolution, religion, and ignorance. - by RDK - May 11, 2014 at 5:18 pm
RE: Evolution, religion, and ignorance. - by pocaracas - May 11, 2014 at 5:38 pm
RE: Evolution, religion, and ignorance. - by RDK - May 11, 2014 at 5:40 pm
RE: Evolution, religion, and ignorance. - by pocaracas - May 11, 2014 at 5:47 pm
RE: Evolution, religion, and ignorance. - by RDK - May 11, 2014 at 6:27 pm
RE: Evolution, religion, and ignorance. - by Cyberman - May 11, 2014 at 6:49 pm
RE: Evolution, religion, and ignorance. - by RDK - May 11, 2014 at 5:57 pm
RE: Evolution, religion, and ignorance. - by pocaracas - May 11, 2014 at 6:03 pm
RE: Evolution, religion, and ignorance. - by RDK - May 11, 2014 at 6:20 pm
RE: Evolution, religion, and ignorance. - by pocaracas - May 11, 2014 at 6:30 pm
RE: Evolution, religion, and ignorance. - by Bad Wolf - May 11, 2014 at 6:39 pm
RE: Evolution, religion, and ignorance. - by RDK - May 11, 2014 at 6:35 pm
RE: Evolution, religion, and ignorance. - by pocaracas - May 11, 2014 at 6:46 pm
RE: Evolution, religion, and ignorance. - by Chas - May 11, 2014 at 7:14 pm
RE: Evolution, religion, and ignorance. - by Cyberman - May 11, 2014 at 7:23 pm
Evolution, religion, and ignorance. - by Rampant.A.I. - May 11, 2014 at 6:40 pm
RE: Evolution, religion, and ignorance. - by RDK - May 11, 2014 at 7:05 pm
RE: Evolution, religion, and ignorance. - by pocaracas - May 12, 2014 at 6:06 pm
RE: Evolution, religion, and ignorance. - by RDK - May 13, 2014 at 8:41 pm
RE: Evolution, religion, and ignorance. - by pocaracas - May 14, 2014 at 5:52 am
RE: Evolution, religion, and ignorance. - by RDK - May 11, 2014 at 7:26 pm
RE: Evolution, religion, and ignorance. - by Cyberman - May 11, 2014 at 7:37 pm
RE: Evolution, religion, and ignorance. - by Chas - May 12, 2014 at 6:06 pm
Evolution, religion, and ignorance. - by Rampant.A.I. - May 11, 2014 at 8:36 pm
RE: Evolution, religion, and ignorance. - by Mudhammam - May 11, 2014 at 9:53 pm
RE: Evolution, religion, and ignorance. - by Chas - May 12, 2014 at 9:59 am
RE: Evolution, religion, and ignorance. - by Mr Greene - May 12, 2014 at 11:54 am
RE: Evolution, religion, and ignorance. - by Chas - May 12, 2014 at 1:25 pm
RE: Evolution, religion, and ignorance. - by Esquilax - May 11, 2014 at 11:36 pm
RE: Evolution, religion, and ignorance. - by Esquilax - May 12, 2014 at 3:51 am
RE: Evolution, religion, and ignorance. - by Cyberman - May 12, 2014 at 1:25 pm
RE: Evolution, religion, and ignorance. - by Mr Greene - May 13, 2014 at 6:29 am
RE: Evolution, religion, and ignorance. - by Cyberman - May 12, 2014 at 1:49 pm
RE: Evolution, religion, and ignorance. - by Esquilax - May 12, 2014 at 1:54 pm
RE: Evolution, religion, and ignorance. - by pocaracas - May 12, 2014 at 1:55 pm
RE: Evolution, religion, and ignorance. - by Cyberman - May 12, 2014 at 4:23 pm
RE: Evolution, religion, and ignorance. - by RDK - May 13, 2014 at 7:31 pm
RE: Evolution, religion, and ignorance. - by Cato - May 13, 2014 at 7:40 pm
RE: Evolution, religion, and ignorance. - by pocaracas - May 13, 2014 at 7:55 pm
RE: Evolution, religion, and ignorance. - by Mr Greene - May 13, 2014 at 8:52 pm
RE: Evolution, religion, and ignorance. - by RDK - May 13, 2014 at 9:04 pm
RE: Evolution, religion, and ignorance. - by Chas - May 13, 2014 at 9:41 pm
RE: Evolution, religion, and ignorance. - by pocaracas - May 14, 2014 at 5:26 am
Evolution, religion, and ignorance. - by Rampant.A.I. - May 13, 2014 at 9:08 pm
RE: Evolution, religion, and ignorance. - by RDK - May 13, 2014 at 9:10 pm
RE: Evolution, religion, and ignorance. - by Tonus - May 14, 2014 at 5:36 am
RE: Evolution, religion, and ignorance. - by dafydd - May 22, 2014 at 4:56 pm
RE: Evolution, religion, and ignorance. - by RDK - May 13, 2014 at 9:34 pm
RE: Evolution, religion, and ignorance. - by Chas - May 13, 2014 at 9:45 pm
RE: Evolution, religion, and ignorance. - by Mr Greene - May 13, 2014 at 9:39 pm
Evolution, religion, and ignorance. - by Rampant.A.I. - May 13, 2014 at 9:41 pm
RE: Evolution, religion, and ignorance. - by RDK - May 13, 2014 at 9:54 pm
RE: Evolution, religion, and ignorance. - by Chas - May 14, 2014 at 2:36 pm
RE: Evolution, religion, and ignorance. - by Mr Greene - May 13, 2014 at 10:23 pm
Evolution, religion, and ignorance. - by Rampant.A.I. - May 13, 2014 at 10:28 pm
RE: Evolution, religion, and ignorance. - by RDK - May 13, 2014 at 10:45 pm
Evolution, religion, and ignorance. - by Rampant.A.I. - May 13, 2014 at 10:47 pm
RE: Evolution, religion, and ignorance. - by Sejanus - May 13, 2014 at 10:53 pm
Evolution, religion, and ignorance. - by Rampant.A.I. - May 13, 2014 at 10:58 pm
RE: Evolution, religion, and ignorance. - by RDK - May 13, 2014 at 11:00 pm
Evolution, religion, and ignorance. - by Rampant.A.I. - May 13, 2014 at 11:30 pm
RE: Evolution, religion, and ignorance. - by RDK - May 13, 2014 at 11:44 pm
RE: Evolution, religion, and ignorance. - by Sejanus - May 13, 2014 at 11:47 pm
RE: Evolution, religion, and ignorance. - by Jackalope - May 13, 2014 at 11:55 pm
RE: Evolution, religion, and ignorance. - by Esquilax - May 14, 2014 at 3:06 am
RE: Evolution, religion, and ignorance. - by Cato - May 14, 2014 at 5:44 am
RE: Evolution, religion, and ignorance. - by Bad Wolf - May 14, 2014 at 9:13 am
RE: Evolution, religion, and ignorance. - by RDK - May 14, 2014 at 10:32 pm
RE: Evolution, religion, and ignorance. - by Ryantology - May 14, 2014 at 10:41 pm
RE: Evolution, religion, and ignorance. - by RDK - May 14, 2014 at 10:42 pm
RE: Evolution, religion, and ignorance. - by Ryantology - May 14, 2014 at 10:46 pm
RE: Evolution, religion, and ignorance. - by Cyberman - May 14, 2014 at 10:50 pm
RE: Evolution, religion, and ignorance. - by RDK - May 14, 2014 at 11:31 pm
RE: Evolution, religion, and ignorance. - by Esquilax - May 15, 2014 at 12:42 am
RE: Evolution, religion, and ignorance. - by Mr Greene - May 16, 2014 at 9:59 am
RE: Evolution, religion, and ignorance. - by RDK - May 14, 2014 at 11:51 pm
RE: Evolution, religion, and ignorance. - by Chas - May 15, 2014 at 10:24 pm
RE: Evolution, religion, and ignorance. - by NoE - May 21, 2014 at 11:18 pm
RE: Evolution, religion, and ignorance. - by RDK - May 15, 2014 at 1:18 am
RE: Evolution, religion, and ignorance. - by Esquilax - May 15, 2014 at 1:24 am
RE: Evolution, religion, and ignorance. - by RDK - May 15, 2014 at 1:34 am
RE: Evolution, religion, and ignorance. - by Esquilax - May 15, 2014 at 1:47 am
RE: Evolution, religion, and ignorance. - by Esquilax - May 15, 2014 at 4:48 am
RE: Evolution, religion, and ignorance. - by Tonus - May 15, 2014 at 9:02 am
Evolution, religion, and ignorance. - by Rampant.A.I. - May 15, 2014 at 1:56 am
RE: Evolution, religion, and ignorance. - by Bad Wolf - May 15, 2014 at 8:54 am
Evolution, religion, and ignorance. - by Rampant.A.I. - May 15, 2014 at 11:13 am
RE: Evolution, religion, and ignorance. - by Crossless1 - May 15, 2014 at 12:21 pm
RE: Evolution, religion, and ignorance. - by ThePinsir - May 16, 2014 at 11:03 am
RE: Evolution, religion, and ignorance. - by Esquilax - May 16, 2014 at 11:27 am
RE: Evolution, religion, and ignorance. - by RDK - May 17, 2014 at 1:50 pm
RE: Evolution, religion, and ignorance. - by RDK - May 17, 2014 at 2:35 pm
RE: Evolution, religion, and ignorance. - by pocaracas - May 17, 2014 at 2:42 pm
RE: Evolution, religion, and ignorance. - by Tonus - May 17, 2014 at 5:01 pm
RE: Evolution, religion, and ignorance. - by RDK - May 17, 2014 at 2:06 pm
RE: Evolution, religion, and ignorance. - by Esquilax - May 17, 2014 at 2:17 pm
RE: Evolution, religion, and ignorance. - by Chas - May 17, 2014 at 7:12 pm
RE: Evolution, religion, and ignorance. - by RDK - May 17, 2014 at 2:23 pm
RE: Evolution, religion, and ignorance. - by RDK - May 17, 2014 at 2:44 pm
RE: Evolution, religion, and ignorance. - by Chas - May 23, 2014 at 7:57 pm
RE: Evolution, religion, and ignorance. - by Chas - May 24, 2014 at 6:18 pm
RE: Evolution, religion, and ignorance. - by RDK - May 17, 2014 at 2:57 pm
RE: Evolution, religion, and ignorance. - by Esquilax - May 17, 2014 at 3:21 pm
RE: Evolution, religion, and ignorance. - by Esquilax - May 23, 2014 at 12:51 pm
RE: Evolution, religion, and ignorance. - by Cyberman - May 23, 2014 at 3:26 pm
RE: Evolution, religion, and ignorance. - by Esquilax - May 23, 2014 at 3:51 pm
Evolution, religion, and ignorance. - by Rampant.A.I. - May 17, 2014 at 3:08 pm
RE: Evolution, religion, and ignorance. - by LastPoet - May 17, 2014 at 3:26 pm
Evolution, religion, and ignorance. - by Rampant.A.I. - May 17, 2014 at 3:30 pm
RE: Evolution, religion, and ignorance. - by Bad Wolf - May 17, 2014 at 4:49 pm
RE: Evolution, religion, and ignorance. - by LastPoet - May 17, 2014 at 4:57 pm
Evolution, religion, and ignorance. - by Rampant.A.I. - May 17, 2014 at 5:59 pm
RE: Evolution, religion, and ignorance. - by Bad Wolf - May 22, 2014 at 5:41 pm
Evolution, religion, and ignorance. - by Rampant.A.I. - May 23, 2014 at 12:24 pm
Evolution, religion, and ignorance. - by Rampant.A.I. - May 23, 2014 at 12:33 pm
RE: Evolution, religion, and ignorance. - by Bad Wolf - May 23, 2014 at 12:41 pm
RE: Evolution, religion, and ignorance. - by Tonus - May 23, 2014 at 12:50 pm
RE: Evolution, religion, and ignorance. - by Angrboda - May 23, 2014 at 1:17 pm

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