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Evolution, religion, and ignorance.
Evolution, religion, and ignorance.
(May 10, 2014 at 5:05 pm)professor Wrote: To the OP.
Yes, I understand your theory.

I also understand there are only 2 areas which are provable-
Mathematics (where lying is quickly found out and serves no purpose).
And demonstrative science- "We did this - we got that".

So, what part of your God + Alien Invasion theory has been demonstrated scientifically again?

(May 10, 2014 at 5:05 pm)professor Wrote:


That law, and the Second Law of Thermodynamics should be enough to put nails in the coffin of your theory.
Hope springs eternal doesn't it.

Way to completely misapply the 2nd law.

Quote:Actually, it is not difficult to find inaccurate statements regarding entropy in popular science literature.

Entropy has been defined nonmathematically as a measure of disorder, equilibrium, uncertainty, and unavailability of energy. Actually, to consider only the entropy content of a system is not enough; a system can gain entropy and, at the same time, become more organized, unbalanced, and richer in information and available energy. (A few examples will be considered later on.) What is important is the entropy deficiency of the system. We define this as the difference between the system's entropy capacity (the maximum amount of entropy the system is capable of holding with its present energy content) and the amount of entropy it is actually holding. This deficiency may also be referred to as negentropy (short for negative entropy)—a concept which, had it been generally adopted, might have been less confusing than entropy. Negentropy, then, has been defined as a measure of order, information, lack of equilibrium, and the availability of energy for doing work.

http://ncse.com/cej/2/2/creationist-misu...use-second

Besides, I don't understand: what does any of this have to do with the impending alien invasion?
Reply



Messages In This Thread
Evolution, religion, and ignorance. - by Esquilax - May 8, 2014 at 1:31 am
RE: Evolution, religion, and ignorance. - by Cato - May 8, 2014 at 5:52 am
RE: Evolution, religion, and ignorance. - by John V - May 8, 2014 at 9:39 am
RE: Evolution, religion, and ignorance. - by Chas - May 8, 2014 at 9:44 am
RE: Evolution, religion, and ignorance. - by John V - May 8, 2014 at 10:07 am
RE: Evolution, religion, and ignorance. - by Esquilax - May 8, 2014 at 10:20 am
RE: Evolution, religion, and ignorance. - by John V - May 8, 2014 at 10:44 am
RE: Evolution, religion, and ignorance. - by Esquilax - May 8, 2014 at 10:50 am
RE: Evolution, religion, and ignorance. - by John V - May 8, 2014 at 11:06 am
RE: Evolution, religion, and ignorance. - by Esquilax - May 8, 2014 at 11:38 am
RE: Evolution, religion, and ignorance. - by John V - May 8, 2014 at 11:58 am
RE: Evolution, religion, and ignorance. - by Esquilax - May 8, 2014 at 12:28 pm
RE: Evolution, religion, and ignorance. - by John V - May 8, 2014 at 12:45 pm
RE: Evolution, religion, and ignorance. - by John V - May 8, 2014 at 1:22 pm
RE: Evolution, religion, and ignorance. - by Cato - May 8, 2014 at 2:05 pm
RE: Evolution, religion, and ignorance. - by Esquilax - May 9, 2014 at 12:39 am
RE: Evolution, religion, and ignorance. - by John V - May 9, 2014 at 7:45 am
RE: Evolution, religion, and ignorance. - by John V - May 8, 2014 at 11:20 am
RE: Evolution, religion, and ignorance. - by Chas - May 8, 2014 at 11:20 am
Evolution, religion, and ignorance. - by Rampant.A.I. - May 8, 2014 at 11:07 am
RE: Evolution, religion, and ignorance. - by Angrboda - May 8, 2014 at 11:43 am
RE: Evolution, religion, and ignorance. - by pocaracas - May 8, 2014 at 11:47 am
Evolution, religion, and ignorance. - by Rampant.A.I. - May 8, 2014 at 12:21 pm
RE: Evolution, religion, and ignorance. - by Bad Wolf - May 8, 2014 at 12:25 pm
Evolution, religion, and ignorance. - by Rampant.A.I. - May 8, 2014 at 12:29 pm
Evolution, religion, and ignorance. - by Rampant.A.I. - May 8, 2014 at 12:48 pm
RE: Evolution, religion, and ignorance. - by Tonus - May 8, 2014 at 1:17 pm
RE: Evolution, religion, and ignorance. - by coldwx - May 8, 2014 at 1:56 pm
RE: Evolution, religion, and ignorance. - by John V - May 8, 2014 at 2:14 pm
RE: Evolution, religion, and ignorance. - by coldwx - May 8, 2014 at 3:32 pm
RE: Evolution, religion, and ignorance. - by Angrboda - May 9, 2014 at 12:08 pm
RE: Evolution, religion, and ignorance. - by Chas - May 9, 2014 at 10:53 am
RE: Evolution, religion, and ignorance. - by Sejanus - May 9, 2014 at 8:24 am
RE: Evolution, religion, and ignorance. - by Sejanus - May 9, 2014 at 8:47 am
RE: Evolution, religion, and ignorance. - by Brian37 - May 9, 2014 at 8:34 am
RE: Evolution, religion, and ignorance. - by John V - May 9, 2014 at 8:54 am
RE: Evolution, religion, and ignorance. - by John V - May 9, 2014 at 10:17 am
RE: Evolution, religion, and ignorance. - by Esquilax - May 9, 2014 at 11:06 am
RE: Evolution, religion, and ignorance. - by John V - May 9, 2014 at 11:59 am
RE: Evolution, religion, and ignorance. - by John V - May 9, 2014 at 12:58 pm
RE: Evolution, religion, and ignorance. - by Cato - May 9, 2014 at 1:15 pm
RE: Evolution, religion, and ignorance. - by John V - May 9, 2014 at 1:29 pm
RE: Evolution, religion, and ignorance. - by Silver - May 9, 2014 at 1:34 pm
RE: Evolution, religion, and ignorance. - by Cato - May 9, 2014 at 1:52 pm
RE: Evolution, religion, and ignorance. - by John V - May 9, 2014 at 1:59 pm
RE: Evolution, religion, and ignorance. - by coldwx - May 9, 2014 at 1:52 pm
RE: Evolution, religion, and ignorance. - by John V - May 9, 2014 at 2:07 pm
RE: Evolution, religion, and ignorance. - by coldwx - May 9, 2014 at 4:30 pm
RE: Evolution, religion, and ignorance. - by John V - May 9, 2014 at 1:47 pm
Evolution, religion, and ignorance. - by Rampant.A.I. - May 9, 2014 at 10:29 am
Evolution, religion, and ignorance. - by Rampant.A.I. - May 9, 2014 at 10:44 am
RE: Evolution, religion, and ignorance. - by coldwx - May 9, 2014 at 11:42 am
RE: Evolution, religion, and ignorance. - by Tonus - May 9, 2014 at 12:05 pm
RE: Evolution, religion, and ignorance. - by coldwx - May 9, 2014 at 1:11 pm
RE: Evolution, religion, and ignorance. - by coldwx - May 9, 2014 at 2:07 pm
RE: Evolution, religion, and ignorance. - by coldwx - May 9, 2014 at 2:41 pm
RE: Evolution, religion, and ignorance. - by John V - May 9, 2014 at 12:18 pm
RE: Evolution, religion, and ignorance. - by Chas - May 9, 2014 at 6:07 pm
RE: Evolution, religion, and ignorance. - by John V - May 10, 2014 at 10:11 am
RE: Evolution, religion, and ignorance. - by Chas - May 10, 2014 at 11:05 am
RE: Evolution, religion, and ignorance. - by John V - May 10, 2014 at 12:28 pm
RE: Evolution, religion, and ignorance. - by Chas - May 10, 2014 at 2:35 pm
RE: Evolution, religion, and ignorance. - by John V - May 11, 2014 at 6:00 am
RE: Evolution, religion, and ignorance. - by Chas - May 11, 2014 at 12:56 pm
RE: Evolution, religion, and ignorance. - by Ksa - May 9, 2014 at 11:42 am
Evolution, religion, and ignorance. - by Rampant.A.I. - May 9, 2014 at 12:30 pm
RE: Evolution, religion, and ignorance. - by John V - May 9, 2014 at 1:13 pm
RE: Evolution, religion, and ignorance. - by Tonus - May 9, 2014 at 1:31 pm
Evolution, religion, and ignorance. - by Rampant.A.I. - May 10, 2014 at 12:59 pm
RE: Evolution, religion, and ignorance. - by professor - May 10, 2014 at 5:05 pm
RE: Evolution, religion, and ignorance. - by Esquilax - May 11, 2014 at 8:51 am
RE: Evolution, religion, and ignorance. - by Esquilax - May 12, 2014 at 4:14 pm
RE: Evolution, religion, and ignorance. - by pocaracas - May 12, 2014 at 4:51 pm
RE: Evolution, religion, and ignorance. - by Ksa - May 12, 2014 at 4:21 pm
Evolution, religion, and ignorance. - by Rampant.A.I. - May 10, 2014 at 7:59 pm
RE: Evolution, religion, and ignorance. - by professor - May 11, 2014 at 8:39 am
RE: Evolution, religion, and ignorance. - by professor - May 11, 2014 at 10:57 am
RE: Evolution, religion, and ignorance. - by Cato - May 11, 2014 at 11:09 am
RE: Evolution, religion, and ignorance. - by pocaracas - May 11, 2014 at 11:13 am
RE: Evolution, religion, and ignorance. - by coldwx - May 11, 2014 at 12:04 pm
RE: Evolution, religion, and ignorance. - by Mr Greene - May 11, 2014 at 12:46 pm
RE: Evolution, religion, and ignorance. - by Esquilax - May 11, 2014 at 1:20 pm
RE: Evolution, religion, and ignorance. - by RDK - May 11, 2014 at 1:43 pm
RE: Evolution, religion, and ignorance. - by Esquilax - May 11, 2014 at 2:05 pm
RE: Evolution, religion, and ignorance. - by LastPoet - May 11, 2014 at 12:01 pm
RE: Evolution, religion, and ignorance. - by LastPoet - May 11, 2014 at 12:07 pm
RE: Evolution, religion, and ignorance. - by LastPoet - May 11, 2014 at 12:51 pm
RE: Evolution, religion, and ignorance. - by Esquilax - May 11, 2014 at 2:18 pm
RE: Evolution, religion, and ignorance. - by BoS - May 11, 2014 at 2:19 pm
RE: Evolution, religion, and ignorance. - by RDK - May 11, 2014 at 2:22 pm
RE: Evolution, religion, and ignorance. - by Esquilax - May 11, 2014 at 2:40 pm
RE: Evolution, religion, and ignorance. - by Silver - May 11, 2014 at 2:42 pm
RE: Evolution, religion, and ignorance. - by Chas - May 12, 2014 at 5:58 pm
RE: Evolution, religion, and ignorance. - by RDK - May 11, 2014 at 2:30 pm
RE: Evolution, religion, and ignorance. - by Silver - May 11, 2014 at 2:34 pm
RE: Evolution, religion, and ignorance. - by RDK - May 11, 2014 at 2:40 pm
RE: Evolution, religion, and ignorance. - by Chas - May 11, 2014 at 5:55 pm
RE: Evolution, religion, and ignorance. - by RDK - May 11, 2014 at 2:57 pm
RE: Evolution, religion, and ignorance. - by Esquilax - May 11, 2014 at 3:06 pm
RE: Evolution, religion, and ignorance. - by Chas - May 11, 2014 at 6:02 pm
RE: Evolution, religion, and ignorance. - by Bad Wolf - May 11, 2014 at 3:06 pm
RE: Evolution, religion, and ignorance. - by RDK - May 11, 2014 at 3:35 pm
RE: Evolution, religion, and ignorance. - by Silver - May 11, 2014 at 3:38 pm
RE: Evolution, religion, and ignorance. - by Esquilax - May 11, 2014 at 3:57 pm
RE: Evolution, religion, and ignorance. - by Chas - May 11, 2014 at 6:04 pm
RE: Evolution, religion, and ignorance. - by pocaracas - May 11, 2014 at 3:42 pm
RE: Evolution, religion, and ignorance. - by LastPoet - May 11, 2014 at 4:42 pm
RE: Evolution, religion, and ignorance. - by RDK - May 11, 2014 at 4:50 pm
RE: Evolution, religion, and ignorance. - by coldwx - May 11, 2014 at 4:57 pm
RE: Evolution, religion, and ignorance. - by Bad Wolf - May 11, 2014 at 4:52 pm
RE: Evolution, religion, and ignorance. - by RDK - May 11, 2014 at 4:58 pm
RE: Evolution, religion, and ignorance. - by Silver - May 11, 2014 at 5:03 pm
RE: Evolution, religion, and ignorance. - by RDK - May 11, 2014 at 5:18 pm
RE: Evolution, religion, and ignorance. - by Silver - May 11, 2014 at 5:20 pm
RE: Evolution, religion, and ignorance. - by pocaracas - May 11, 2014 at 5:38 pm
RE: Evolution, religion, and ignorance. - by RDK - May 11, 2014 at 5:40 pm
RE: Evolution, religion, and ignorance. - by pocaracas - May 11, 2014 at 5:47 pm
RE: Evolution, religion, and ignorance. - by RDK - May 11, 2014 at 6:27 pm
RE: Evolution, religion, and ignorance. - by Cyberman - May 11, 2014 at 6:49 pm
RE: Evolution, religion, and ignorance. - by RDK - May 11, 2014 at 5:57 pm
RE: Evolution, religion, and ignorance. - by pocaracas - May 11, 2014 at 6:03 pm
RE: Evolution, religion, and ignorance. - by RDK - May 11, 2014 at 6:20 pm
RE: Evolution, religion, and ignorance. - by Silver - May 11, 2014 at 6:22 pm
RE: Evolution, religion, and ignorance. - by pocaracas - May 11, 2014 at 6:30 pm
RE: Evolution, religion, and ignorance. - by Bad Wolf - May 11, 2014 at 6:39 pm
RE: Evolution, religion, and ignorance. - by RDK - May 11, 2014 at 6:35 pm
RE: Evolution, religion, and ignorance. - by pocaracas - May 11, 2014 at 6:46 pm
RE: Evolution, religion, and ignorance. - by Chas - May 11, 2014 at 7:14 pm
RE: Evolution, religion, and ignorance. - by Cyberman - May 11, 2014 at 7:23 pm
Evolution, religion, and ignorance. - by Rampant.A.I. - May 11, 2014 at 6:40 pm
RE: Evolution, religion, and ignorance. - by RDK - May 11, 2014 at 7:05 pm
RE: Evolution, religion, and ignorance. - by Silver - May 11, 2014 at 7:08 pm
RE: Evolution, religion, and ignorance. - by pocaracas - May 12, 2014 at 6:06 pm
RE: Evolution, religion, and ignorance. - by RDK - May 13, 2014 at 8:41 pm
RE: Evolution, religion, and ignorance. - by pocaracas - May 14, 2014 at 5:52 am
RE: Evolution, religion, and ignorance. - by RDK - May 11, 2014 at 7:26 pm
RE: Evolution, religion, and ignorance. - by Cyberman - May 11, 2014 at 7:37 pm
RE: Evolution, religion, and ignorance. - by Chas - May 12, 2014 at 6:06 pm
Evolution, religion, and ignorance. - by Rampant.A.I. - May 11, 2014 at 8:36 pm
RE: Evolution, religion, and ignorance. - by Mudhammam - May 11, 2014 at 9:53 pm
RE: Evolution, religion, and ignorance. - by Chas - May 12, 2014 at 9:59 am
RE: Evolution, religion, and ignorance. - by Mr Greene - May 12, 2014 at 11:54 am
RE: Evolution, religion, and ignorance. - by Chas - May 12, 2014 at 1:25 pm
RE: Evolution, religion, and ignorance. - by Esquilax - May 11, 2014 at 11:36 pm
RE: Evolution, religion, and ignorance. - by Esquilax - May 12, 2014 at 3:51 am
RE: Evolution, religion, and ignorance. - by Cyberman - May 12, 2014 at 1:25 pm
RE: Evolution, religion, and ignorance. - by Mr Greene - May 13, 2014 at 6:29 am
RE: Evolution, religion, and ignorance. - by Cyberman - May 12, 2014 at 1:49 pm
RE: Evolution, religion, and ignorance. - by Esquilax - May 12, 2014 at 1:54 pm
RE: Evolution, religion, and ignorance. - by pocaracas - May 12, 2014 at 1:55 pm
RE: Evolution, religion, and ignorance. - by Cyberman - May 12, 2014 at 4:23 pm
RE: Evolution, religion, and ignorance. - by RDK - May 13, 2014 at 7:31 pm
RE: Evolution, religion, and ignorance. - by Cato - May 13, 2014 at 7:40 pm
RE: Evolution, religion, and ignorance. - by pocaracas - May 13, 2014 at 7:55 pm
RE: Evolution, religion, and ignorance. - by Mr Greene - May 13, 2014 at 8:52 pm
RE: Evolution, religion, and ignorance. - by RDK - May 13, 2014 at 9:04 pm
RE: Evolution, religion, and ignorance. - by Chas - May 13, 2014 at 9:41 pm
RE: Evolution, religion, and ignorance. - by pocaracas - May 14, 2014 at 5:26 am
Evolution, religion, and ignorance. - by Rampant.A.I. - May 13, 2014 at 9:08 pm
RE: Evolution, religion, and ignorance. - by RDK - May 13, 2014 at 9:10 pm
RE: Evolution, religion, and ignorance. - by Silver - May 13, 2014 at 9:12 pm
RE: Evolution, religion, and ignorance. - by Tonus - May 14, 2014 at 5:36 am
RE: Evolution, religion, and ignorance. - by dafydd - May 22, 2014 at 4:56 pm
RE: Evolution, religion, and ignorance. - by RDK - May 13, 2014 at 9:34 pm
RE: Evolution, religion, and ignorance. - by Silver - May 13, 2014 at 9:43 pm
RE: Evolution, religion, and ignorance. - by Chas - May 13, 2014 at 9:45 pm
RE: Evolution, religion, and ignorance. - by Mr Greene - May 13, 2014 at 9:39 pm
Evolution, religion, and ignorance. - by Rampant.A.I. - May 13, 2014 at 9:41 pm
RE: Evolution, religion, and ignorance. - by RDK - May 13, 2014 at 9:54 pm
RE: Evolution, religion, and ignorance. - by Chas - May 14, 2014 at 2:36 pm
RE: Evolution, religion, and ignorance. - by Mr Greene - May 13, 2014 at 10:23 pm
Evolution, religion, and ignorance. - by Rampant.A.I. - May 13, 2014 at 10:28 pm
RE: Evolution, religion, and ignorance. - by RDK - May 13, 2014 at 10:45 pm
Evolution, religion, and ignorance. - by Rampant.A.I. - May 13, 2014 at 10:47 pm
RE: Evolution, religion, and ignorance. - by Sejanus - May 13, 2014 at 10:53 pm
Evolution, religion, and ignorance. - by Rampant.A.I. - May 13, 2014 at 10:58 pm
RE: Evolution, religion, and ignorance. - by RDK - May 13, 2014 at 11:00 pm
Evolution, religion, and ignorance. - by Rampant.A.I. - May 13, 2014 at 11:30 pm
RE: Evolution, religion, and ignorance. - by RDK - May 13, 2014 at 11:44 pm
RE: Evolution, religion, and ignorance. - by Sejanus - May 13, 2014 at 11:47 pm
RE: Evolution, religion, and ignorance. - by Jackalope - May 13, 2014 at 11:55 pm
RE: Evolution, religion, and ignorance. - by Esquilax - May 14, 2014 at 3:06 am
RE: Evolution, religion, and ignorance. - by Cato - May 14, 2014 at 5:44 am
RE: Evolution, religion, and ignorance. - by Bad Wolf - May 14, 2014 at 9:13 am
RE: Evolution, religion, and ignorance. - by RDK - May 14, 2014 at 10:32 pm
RE: Evolution, religion, and ignorance. - by Ryantology - May 14, 2014 at 10:41 pm
RE: Evolution, religion, and ignorance. - by RDK - May 14, 2014 at 10:42 pm
RE: Evolution, religion, and ignorance. - by Ryantology - May 14, 2014 at 10:46 pm
RE: Evolution, religion, and ignorance. - by Cyberman - May 14, 2014 at 10:50 pm
RE: Evolution, religion, and ignorance. - by RDK - May 14, 2014 at 11:31 pm
RE: Evolution, religion, and ignorance. - by Esquilax - May 15, 2014 at 12:42 am
RE: Evolution, religion, and ignorance. - by Mr Greene - May 16, 2014 at 9:59 am
RE: Evolution, religion, and ignorance. - by RDK - May 14, 2014 at 11:51 pm
RE: Evolution, religion, and ignorance. - by Chas - May 15, 2014 at 10:24 pm
RE: Evolution, religion, and ignorance. - by NoE - May 21, 2014 at 11:18 pm
RE: Evolution, religion, and ignorance. - by RDK - May 15, 2014 at 1:18 am
RE: Evolution, religion, and ignorance. - by Esquilax - May 15, 2014 at 1:24 am
RE: Evolution, religion, and ignorance. - by RDK - May 15, 2014 at 1:34 am
RE: Evolution, religion, and ignorance. - by Esquilax - May 15, 2014 at 1:47 am
RE: Evolution, religion, and ignorance. - by Esquilax - May 15, 2014 at 4:48 am
RE: Evolution, religion, and ignorance. - by Tonus - May 15, 2014 at 9:02 am
Evolution, religion, and ignorance. - by Rampant.A.I. - May 15, 2014 at 1:56 am
RE: Evolution, religion, and ignorance. - by Bad Wolf - May 15, 2014 at 8:54 am
Evolution, religion, and ignorance. - by Rampant.A.I. - May 15, 2014 at 11:13 am
RE: Evolution, religion, and ignorance. - by Crossless1 - May 15, 2014 at 12:21 pm
RE: Evolution, religion, and ignorance. - by ThePinsir - May 16, 2014 at 11:03 am
RE: Evolution, religion, and ignorance. - by Esquilax - May 16, 2014 at 11:27 am
RE: Evolution, religion, and ignorance. - by RDK - May 17, 2014 at 1:50 pm
RE: Evolution, religion, and ignorance. - by RDK - May 17, 2014 at 2:35 pm
RE: Evolution, religion, and ignorance. - by pocaracas - May 17, 2014 at 2:42 pm
RE: Evolution, religion, and ignorance. - by Tonus - May 17, 2014 at 5:01 pm
RE: Evolution, religion, and ignorance. - by RDK - May 17, 2014 at 2:06 pm
RE: Evolution, religion, and ignorance. - by Esquilax - May 17, 2014 at 2:17 pm
RE: Evolution, religion, and ignorance. - by Chas - May 17, 2014 at 7:12 pm
RE: Evolution, religion, and ignorance. - by RDK - May 17, 2014 at 2:23 pm
RE: Evolution, religion, and ignorance. - by RDK - May 17, 2014 at 2:44 pm
RE: Evolution, religion, and ignorance. - by Chas - May 23, 2014 at 7:57 pm
RE: Evolution, religion, and ignorance. - by Chas - May 24, 2014 at 6:18 pm
RE: Evolution, religion, and ignorance. - by RDK - May 17, 2014 at 2:57 pm
RE: Evolution, religion, and ignorance. - by Esquilax - May 17, 2014 at 3:21 pm
RE: Evolution, religion, and ignorance. - by Esquilax - May 23, 2014 at 12:51 pm
RE: Evolution, religion, and ignorance. - by Cyberman - May 23, 2014 at 3:26 pm
RE: Evolution, religion, and ignorance. - by Esquilax - May 23, 2014 at 3:51 pm
Evolution, religion, and ignorance. - by Rampant.A.I. - May 17, 2014 at 3:08 pm
RE: Evolution, religion, and ignorance. - by LastPoet - May 17, 2014 at 3:26 pm
Evolution, religion, and ignorance. - by Rampant.A.I. - May 17, 2014 at 3:30 pm
RE: Evolution, religion, and ignorance. - by Bad Wolf - May 17, 2014 at 4:49 pm
RE: Evolution, religion, and ignorance. - by LastPoet - May 17, 2014 at 4:57 pm
Evolution, religion, and ignorance. - by Rampant.A.I. - May 17, 2014 at 5:59 pm
RE: Evolution, religion, and ignorance. - by Bad Wolf - May 22, 2014 at 5:41 pm
Evolution, religion, and ignorance. - by Rampant.A.I. - May 23, 2014 at 12:24 pm
Evolution, religion, and ignorance. - by Rampant.A.I. - May 23, 2014 at 12:33 pm
RE: Evolution, religion, and ignorance. - by Bad Wolf - May 23, 2014 at 12:41 pm
RE: Evolution, religion, and ignorance. - by Tonus - May 23, 2014 at 12:50 pm
RE: Evolution, religion, and ignorance. - by Angrboda - May 23, 2014 at 1:17 pm

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