Before Christ & The Bible

[Fidel_Castronaut]

Which of course makes sense to the warped logic that you describe.

But to everyone else it's just nonsensical. I mean, they're still demonstrably to blame by anyone's standard...well, except their own.

Exactly, the secular sense on morality is based more upon the causal effect of harm and happiness, whereas the Christian one is absolute submission of will and intellect to the deity.

Where "Gods will" and secular ethics sit side by side (Murder is bad) we generally can't see much of a difference, but when we get to "slay the infidels" it's quite apparent how differently morality is defined.

I know several religious groups claim it is impossible to be moral and not a believer, it's like claiming to be a tiger and a vegetarian. I wonder how you might respond to that claim

I'd respond by saying its impossible to reason with someone who can absolve the contradiction between 'slay the infidel' and 'murder is bad'.