(June 12, 2014 at 12:54 pm)Vox Wrote:

(June 12, 2014 at 12:51 pm)Fidel_Castronaut Wrote: So in other words, Christians are to blame for people going to hell because otherwise nobody would have heard of this god thing, right?

Is it thus not morally reprehensible to tell a young child about Jésus lest they come to a decision contrary to that which the person telling them holds?

No, because Christians are told to preach to everyone (Mark 16:15), it's an expectation of them to testify, defend and promote their faith. They're ordered to tell people, and at least give them the chance of accepting the Gospel.

If God orders it, it's good. It's good by virtue of the fact God wants it.

Which of course makes sense to the warped logic that you describe.

But to everyone else it's just nonsensical. I mean, they're still demonstrably to blame by anyone's standard...well, except their own.

(June 12, 2014 at 3:05 pm)Fidel_Castronaut Wrote: Which of course makes sense to the warped logic that you describe.

But to everyone else it's just nonsensical. I mean, they're still demonstrably to blame by anyone's standard...well, except their own.

Exactly, the secular sense on morality is based more upon the causal effect of harm and happiness, whereas the Christian one is absolute submission of will and intellect to the deity.

Where "Gods will" and secular ethics sit side by side (Murder is bad) we generally can't see much of a difference, but when we get to "slay the infidels" it's quite apparent how differently morality is defined.

I know several religious groups claim it is impossible to be moral and not a believer, it's like claiming to be a tiger and a vegetarian. I wonder how you might respond to that claim

(June 12, 2014 at 3:11 pm)Vox Wrote:

(June 12, 2014 at 3:05 pm)Fidel_Castronaut Wrote: Which of course makes sense to the warped logic that you describe.

But to everyone else it's just nonsensical. I mean, they're still demonstrably to blame by anyone's standard...well, except their own.

Exactly, the secular sense on morality is based more upon the causal effect of harm and happiness, whereas the Christian one is absolute submission of will and intellect to the deity.

Where "Gods will" and secular ethics sit side by side (Murder is bad) we generally can't see much of a difference, but when we get to "slay the infidels" it's quite apparent how differently morality is defined.

I know several religious groups claim it is impossible to be moral and not a believer, it's like claiming to be a tiger and a vegetarian. I wonder how you might respond to that claim

I'd respond by saying its impossible to reason with someone who can absolve the contradiction between 'slay the infidel' and 'murder is bad'.

(June 12, 2014 at 3:17 pm)Fidel_Castronaut Wrote:

(June 12, 2014 at 3:11 pm)Vox Wrote: Exactly, the secular sense on morality is based more upon the causal effect of harm and happiness, whereas the Christian one is absolute submission of will and intellect to the deity.

Where "Gods will" and secular ethics sit side by side (Murder is bad) we generally can't see much of a difference, but when we get to "slay the infidels" it's quite apparent how differently morality is defined.

I know several religious groups claim it is impossible to be moral and not a believer, it's like claiming to be a tiger and a vegetarian. I wonder how you might respond to that claim

I'd respond by saying its impossible to reason with someone who can absolve the contradiction between 'slay the infidel' and 'murder is bad'.

Silly Fidel! Everyone knows heretics aren't people! They don't count because they're toxic and letting them live might risk dragging the souls of the faithful down to hell with them. They deserve to be made an example of!

(June 12, 2014 at 3:17 pm)Fidel_Castronaut Wrote: I'd respond by saying its impossible to reason with someone who can absolve the contradiction between 'slay the infidel' and 'murder is bad'.

I'd respond by saying "Bollocks!", for exactly the reason above.

(June 12, 2014 at 12:13 pm)Lek Wrote: Other parts of the world didn't know about him until the message was preached to them after Christ left the world.

Where did we go wrong? To think, we could have lived out our merry little lives without ever coming into contact with Christianity.

(June 12, 2014 at 12:20 pm)Vox Wrote: You've got the choice of believing or suffering endlessly in hellfire to put it simply. It's easier for a lot of folks to not risk being wrong and play along. Ever heard of Pascal's wager? It happens more often than you'd expect.

Only two? You make it sound so simple. Those are not the only options Vox.

Don't take my word for it. Just ask Christians. They'll give you 35,000 denominations of answers.

(June 12, 2014 at 12:48 pm)Vox Wrote: Any violation of his law (sinning) deserves eternal punishment, because all sins are personal slights against the source of all good.

Mother's a Christian. She believes god's love and god's desire for justice are both infinite.

As a consequence, they cancel each other out, and god ends up doing what he's been doing for last several thousand years... nothing.

(June 12, 2014 at 12:05 pm)dreenbmp Wrote: So I had a dumb question.

What do modern Christians believe happened before the bible existed and before christ was born....I say this because, when I think of christianity, obviously it was a religion based on Christ, and there were so many religions existing before christianity.
So how do we expect other areas of the world to know of this christian god before his time, and before the time of his holy book?

I've honestly never heard this been brought up or talked about. Was just curious and wanted some others thoughts!

Actually modern Christians don't care what happened before Christ!

It all begins, and ends w/ Christ!

And the less you know, the better you will fare. As much as everyone here likes to point out "bad" Chrisitans.... it goes w/o saying they will be the first thrown in Gehenna!

Luke 12:48 "But the one who does not know and does things deserving punishment will be beaten with few blows. From everyone who has been given much, much will be demanded; and from the one who has been entrusted with much, much more will be asked."

(June 12, 2014 at 3:39 pm)ronedee Wrote: It all begins, and ends w/ Christ!

And the less you know, the better you cult of dead megalomaniacal sectarian layabout will fare.

Here, fixed it for you.

(June 12, 2014 at 4:02 pm)Chuck Wrote:

(June 12, 2014 at 3:39 pm)ronedee Wrote: It all begins, and ends w/ Christ!

And the less you know, the better you cult of dead megalomaniacal sectarian layabout will fare.

Here, fixed it for you.

Is that all you can do? Twist Words?

(June 12, 2014 at 3:39 pm)ronedee Wrote: Actually modern Christians don't care what happened before Christ!

It all begins, and ends w/ Christ!

Wow - that's not insular or parochial at all.

(June 12, 2014 at 3:39 pm)ronedee Wrote: And the less you know, the better you will fare.

Ignorance is bliss, eh? That must explain all those happy xtians and muslims...

(June 12, 2014 at 3:39 pm)ronedee Wrote: As much as everyone here likes to point out "bad" Chrisitans.... it goes w/o saying they will be the first thrown in Gehenna!

What, the rubbish tip outside Jerusalem?