RE: Can Someone be Simply "An Agnostic?"
June 26, 2014 at 3:58 pm
(This post was last modified: June 26, 2014 at 4:00 pm by MindForgedManacle.)
(June 26, 2014 at 3:40 pm)FatAndFaithless Wrote: No... I'm an agnostic atheist. Gnosticism addresses the epistemological quesiton, "can it be known". No, I don't think it can be known. Theism or atheism or antitheism address the theological quesiton "does one believe".
And what is a belief? It's a propositional attitude, i.e something you think is or is not the case. Here, let me reuse an earlier analogy which no one answered, aside from saying that I was cheating, because I think it clearly illustrates the problem with trying to define atheism as "lacking belief in gods":
1
0
-1
It is patently false for someone to say that because 0 isn't a positive number (and therefore "lacks positivity), that it is therefore a negative number. Yes, it IS true that zero lacks the property of positivity, but that's just something zero has in common with negative numbers. Likewise, it is true that atheists (and agnostics) lack belief in gods, but that's not why they're atheists. An atheist is one who rejects the existence of gods. That they "lack belief" is not what makes them an atheist. That's just an incidental commonality they have with agnostics, ignostics and people who have never heard of god concepts.
Check out my ET analogy on page 8 for a version of this analogy which deals with belief.
Quote:I don't claim to know about the existence/nonexistence of God(s), but I do not accept or believe the claims that they do. Agnostic atheist.
No one is saying that atheists have to claim they know that gods don't exist (even if I might be willing to go that far, perhaps). This is the thing, agnostics don't merely claim it cannot be known. They say something like "Our epistemic situation is such that I cannot answer the question 'Do gods exist?' either affirmatively (theist) or contra (atheist)." You're getting bogged down in sloppy etymology. The "a" at the beginning of the word doesn't always negate what's in front of it, i.e "afloat" doesn't mean not to float, but that something is floating.
(June 26, 2014 at 3:49 pm)FatAndFaithless Wrote:(June 26, 2014 at 3:48 pm)Rhythm Wrote: While I would say that (and identify as an anti-theist), it isn't a position inherent in anti-theism. I've been waiting to quote me some dead atheist prophets for awhile now
"I'm not even an atheist so much as I am an antitheist; I not only maintain that all religions are versions of the same untruth, but I hold that the influence of churches, and the effect of religious belief, is positively harmful." -Hitchens
I'm not sure I quite get what you're saying.
He seems to basically be saying that you're confused on what anti-theism is. It's not equivalent to a strong atheist as you earlier said, but to people who think theism is something that is vile and needs to be fought against. Anti-religious, basically.
"The reason things will never get better is because people keep electing these rich cocksuckers who don't give a shit about you."
-George Carlin
-George Carlin