RE: Abortion is morally wrong
July 28, 2014 at 8:47 am
(This post was last modified: July 28, 2014 at 8:48 am by Losty.)
I will admit, I don't know a lot about debating terminology. Everything I do know, is something I have learned on this forum and one other. I'm not even going to bother trying to quote from that huge mess up there, but in the future it would be greatly appreciated if you quote properly. Let me see if I can just try to make some bullet points based off of your responses.
• We can drop the "apology" as it is pointless. What you said would not have been much less rude had you said do "not talk to me" instead of "do not talk". I am over it anyways. We can just move on from that.
• I am not trying to straw man you. I may be doing exactly that, but I'm not sure if it counts. My understanding of a straw man is arguing against a point that someone did not make. I don't think I'm doing that. I was just trying to say that, to me, your point doesn't make sense unless sex is an immoral act. Now I would like to change my mind and say your argument doesn't make sense, to me, unless either sex is an immoral act or it results in the harm of another person or their property.
Since you have stated that you do not think sex is immoral and it is obvious that (except in rare cases) it doesn't harm people who are not involved, then I can now say your argument does not make sense to me.
•I don't understand why you get to just change my analogy to fit your argument. My analogy fits perfectly with accidental pregnancy. I give myself permission to do what I like to do and to deal with any resulting consequences of my actions in whatever way I deem apropriate.
In my analogy I eat the sushi, I know the risks I am taking for myself, and I choose for myself what actions I will take if the result of my choice means something in my body that I don't want there.
When I have sex I have sex, I know the risk I am taking for myself, and I choose for myself what actions I will take if the result of me choice means something in my body that I don't want there.
In your analogy I would know the risk of harming someone else, and choose to take that risk anyways, and I would be responsible for harming someone else. I suppose the person I caused to be sick would get to choose how I should fix the problem I caused for them.
The only way that could compare to unwanted pregnancy is if my having sex could result in the unwanted pregnancy of the lady in the ark suite opposite mine.
•Now I guess we go to the broken window analogy. I don't understand why all of these analogies you make are about harming other people, but I will get to that in a minute.
If I break someone's window by throwing a ball through it, then I will pay to have the ball removed and the window replaced. What I will not do is make monthly payments for nine months so my neighbor can have a stain glass window and let them keep my ball. Nope won't.
Now let me get back to the whole harming others thing. Where are going with this? If I have sex and I get pregnant, then taking responsibility would mean dealing with the consequences myself in whatever way I I choose. I cannot understand why having an abortion would not count as taking responsibility.
• Also, I was wondering. You said that when people have sex if they know the risks then by having sex they choose to accept them. What if two people discuss this beforehand. They decide that they understand the risk of pregnancy, but they refuse to accept it and in a bout of premeditated responsibility they plan an abortion in the case of any pregnancy because they do not accept pregnancy as a possible consequence. Would you still say the abortion is immoral?
• We can drop the "apology" as it is pointless. What you said would not have been much less rude had you said do "not talk to me" instead of "do not talk". I am over it anyways. We can just move on from that.
• I am not trying to straw man you. I may be doing exactly that, but I'm not sure if it counts. My understanding of a straw man is arguing against a point that someone did not make. I don't think I'm doing that. I was just trying to say that, to me, your point doesn't make sense unless sex is an immoral act. Now I would like to change my mind and say your argument doesn't make sense, to me, unless either sex is an immoral act or it results in the harm of another person or their property.
Since you have stated that you do not think sex is immoral and it is obvious that (except in rare cases) it doesn't harm people who are not involved, then I can now say your argument does not make sense to me.
•I don't understand why you get to just change my analogy to fit your argument. My analogy fits perfectly with accidental pregnancy. I give myself permission to do what I like to do and to deal with any resulting consequences of my actions in whatever way I deem apropriate.
In my analogy I eat the sushi, I know the risks I am taking for myself, and I choose for myself what actions I will take if the result of my choice means something in my body that I don't want there.
When I have sex I have sex, I know the risk I am taking for myself, and I choose for myself what actions I will take if the result of me choice means something in my body that I don't want there.
In your analogy I would know the risk of harming someone else, and choose to take that risk anyways, and I would be responsible for harming someone else. I suppose the person I caused to be sick would get to choose how I should fix the problem I caused for them.
The only way that could compare to unwanted pregnancy is if my having sex could result in the unwanted pregnancy of the lady in the ark suite opposite mine.
•Now I guess we go to the broken window analogy. I don't understand why all of these analogies you make are about harming other people, but I will get to that in a minute.
If I break someone's window by throwing a ball through it, then I will pay to have the ball removed and the window replaced. What I will not do is make monthly payments for nine months so my neighbor can have a stain glass window and let them keep my ball. Nope won't.
Now let me get back to the whole harming others thing. Where are going with this? If I have sex and I get pregnant, then taking responsibility would mean dealing with the consequences myself in whatever way I I choose. I cannot understand why having an abortion would not count as taking responsibility.
• Also, I was wondering. You said that when people have sex if they know the risks then by having sex they choose to accept them. What if two people discuss this beforehand. They decide that they understand the risk of pregnancy, but they refuse to accept it and in a bout of premeditated responsibility they plan an abortion in the case of any pregnancy because they do not accept pregnancy as a possible consequence. Would you still say the abortion is immoral?
