Abortion is morally wrong

[Losty]

Your rant against my post, which makes no sense, also makes baby Jesus cry. Oops, I mean it MAKES baby JESUS cry.

replied to wrong one - meant to be the same you replied to, thought that was obvious. But your attempts at humiliation are weak at best - I do use caps for emphasis, not randomly - neither MAKES or JESUS needs emphasis, though in your previous sentence NO SENSE would seem reasonable. Therefore I must conclude that you're a butt hurt douche (rectal tampon?)

I am glad you said this, because you're now in my swear word/insult thread and I always love when people post in that thread. I am trying to understand you, but it's difficult for me. I will explain further somewhere down in my post.
For emphasis in future you can use caps or you can use [/b] and [b] to bold your words. Just put them in opposite order and the word and becomes bolded. I wasn't sure if you knew that so if you did then sorry I was just letting you know.

I will just have to agree to disagree with you. You haven't given any reasons for your opinion that make me want to change mine. I don't have any desire to change your opinion on the matter.

My opinion is that people engage in risky activities all of the time and I don't ever think it's immoral for them to try to mitigate (thanks esq. for the new word) the consequences of those actions. Sometimes I think that's all life really is. We take risks and we either enjoy or mitigate the consequences.

I'm not trying to change your opinion, if anything I am looking for feedback on whether I should change mine. I specifically asked for feedback on my opinoin (what do you think, why, etc) NOT this is right and you are wrong for your beliefs. If you took it that way, that's on you. However, given that i DID ask for feedback, you haven't given me any reason that I would or should change mine. It's unfortunate that there is so much pedantic bickering and squabbling that it drowns out the actual conversation that I was trying to have (not really directed at you losty, atleast I got some directed responses).

You didn't ask me to change your mind. You asked for thoughts and opinions and so I gave mine. Abortion debate is too exhausting for me and yet I continue coming back here. I'm trying to understand your position.

Regardless, it was helpful to me, as it gave me a forum to "air out" my position on a topic that is hard to find such a venue. I did realize how much my arguement depended on the fetus being a moral agent to whom someone (the mother) had moral accountability. Since I do feel that way anyway, it didn't change my belief, but did help me see a potential "crack." Too bad I had to come to this realization on my own, but again the arguements here get so pendantic that the PHILOSOPHY get diluted {again not so much with you losty}.

It didn't take you long to realize that saying mean things when quoting Losty is not a fun choice hehe. What can I say, I love that my friends iz protective of me :p
Really though it would make more sense to me if you directed these things at whoever they are meant to be directed at.

Regarding your second statement, of course we try to mitigate (which means LESSEN) BOTH risk and consequence and I have never argued against that {eg birth control, condoms, rhythm method, homosexuality, masturbation, whatever}. HOWEVER there is a difference between MITIGATING and SHIRKING (which means AVOID -- didn't even need a dictionary)

While I'm excited for you that you have a nice vocabulary, my thanking Esquilax for the new word was not a request for all words to be defined for me in the future. I have a dictionary, if I don't know a word I will look it up. Thanks though.

responsibilty for consequences, which was my arguement. Back to my ball through the neighbors window analogy - you can mitigate risk by using a rubber ball, putting up a fence, etc, but ultimately if you hit a ball through you neighbor's window you have a moral responsibility and obligation to repair the damage - you could mitigate the total damage by paying some small amount ahead of time INCASE you broke his window, have spare windows in your garage, be involved with a window repair man/woman, etc - but ultimately I still argue you have a moral responsibility to repair his window. If this is NOT a position you support then I would be interested to know why not so that I may see if it causes ME to adjust my views or arguements.

I will agree with you this far.

Regarding the extension of this analogy to abortion, I have heard it many times that abortion is "taking responsibility." This is NOT a sentiment I share. Again IF you accept that the fetus is a moral agent (different arguement that I would be happy to have seperately) then you are NOT addressing your obligation to THEM but only to you -- again analagous to burning down the neighbors house or killing them (again I DO NOT FEEL THAT ABORTION IS MURDER, THIS IS ONLY AN LOOSE ANALOGY) in the sense that ultimately you problem of responsibility for the broken window is gone, but you have not really redressed the obligation to the other party.

IF you feel that the fetus IS a moral agent and do not agree with this line of thinking, I would be interested in understanding why?

As I have said, I do not feel that anyone has a moral responsibility to the fetus itself. I will allow for the fetus to be what you call a "moral agent" for a moment though.
A mother has equal responsibility to all of her children (let's just let the fetus be a kid too). It is up to the mother to make choices based on what she thinks is best for her children. There are so many factors that need to be considered, and I would say thousands of factors that may or may not apply for each case of accidental pregnancy. That is why each individual woman is most suited to make a decision in her own case. She knows all the circumstances. By having an abortion, a woman who places value on her fetus is not only mitigating consequences for herself, but also for her fetus. She is allowing for it to die not having ever known it existed, rather it being born into whatever it would have been born into that she didn't think was best for it. That may be a family with 4 kids who are barely surviving, a shitty apartment where he was brought home and propped in a bouncy chair at 2 days old and left to die while she sits in the next room doing drugs with her friends, an abusive relative, or maybe just a home where it is unwanted or unloved.
You can argue that these women could give the baby up for adoption when it's born, but they know they won't. A woman knows what she is and isn't capable of. If she chooses to abort she's not shirking her responsibilities to the fetus. She's doing what she thinks is best for all parties including the fetus.