RE: Abortion is morally wrong
August 18, 2014 at 4:55 am
(This post was last modified: August 18, 2014 at 5:09 am by little_monkey.)
(August 17, 2014 at 11:13 am)rexbeccarox Wrote:Thanks for point that out... Unfortunately I can't change the post as the editor option is not available after a certain times.(August 17, 2014 at 10:40 am)little_monkey Wrote: Ben Davis said:
"YES YES YES as I have stated multiple times, this is a MORAL question and arguement NOT a LEGAL arguement that I am raising. "
You would have to define what is morality. For theists, generally it is God's command. As you can guess, that won't hold water for atheists.
Generally for atheists, morality is a human construct. As a general guide, anything that is harmful to the individual or to society would be considered morally wrong, with emphasis on "general".
On the issue of abortion, one can argue that it is dangerous to make abortion illegal, as woman will seek to have an abortion without medical expertise. Secondly, you have authority on your body, so a woman has the final decision if she wants to carry her pregnancy to term. Thirdly, we have a population that is growing exponentially: we need to limit this growth somehow and having legalized abortion is one measure to do that. Fourthly, illegal abortion puts poor women at a disadvantage as rich women have the financial means to get better and safer illegal abortions.
Little Monkey, please edit your post to attribute your quote to the correct person. Ben Davis is not who you quoted, it was the answer is 42.
(August 17, 2014 at 1:31 pm)answer-is-42 Wrote:(August 16, 2014 at 11:07 pm)Rhythm Wrote: Because it doesn't exist, he's missing an undeclared assumption (which he's made in the thread but ommitted this go round)- I'd just like to see him put it all together again - so that I don't have to pitch straw.
OK giggles here we go in the simplest terms and smallest words
Prereq: A fetus is a subject (NOT DEBATING THIS ISSUES IN THIS ARGUEMENT)
1) Responsibility for the consequences of your voluntary actions is moral
2) Sex is a voluntary action and pregnancy is a consequence
3) Abortion is by definition a FAILURE to be responsible to the fetus (subject of action for that action
4) THERE FORE (a word I have used MULTIPLE TIMES) abortion is not moral.
WHERE IS THE CIRCLE {i just noticed your cussing, didn't realize that was allowed here so } dipsh*t?
You may not agree with every step, fine we can talk about that. But to call this circular is a straw man in everysense. This is what my multiple posts have given examples of.
If i failed to lay it out in EVERY post, sorry but it's stupid to have to rehash the whole damn thing, instead go back in read the first ones where i did and intellectually honestly debate the points. If you want to argue on those points, fine, but I'm still waiting on arguements on merit rather than structure.
(August 17, 2014 at 10:40 am)little_monkey Wrote: Ben Davis said:
"YES YES YES as I have stated multiple times, this is a MORAL question and arguement NOT a LEGAL arguement that I am raising. "
You would have to define what is morality. For theists, generally it is God's command. As you can guess, that won't hold water for atheists.
Generally for atheists, morality is a human construct. As a general guide, anything that is harmful to the individual or to society would be considered morally wrong, with emphasis on "general".
On the issue of abortion, one can argue that it is dangerous to make abortion illegal, as woman will seek to have an abortion without medical expertise. Secondly, you have authority on your body, so a woman has the final decision if she wants to carry her pregnancy to term. Thirdly, we have a population that is growing exponentially: we need to limit this growth somehow and having legalized abortion is one measure to do that. Fourthly, illegal abortion puts poor women at a disadvantage as rich women have the financial means to get better and safer illegal abortions.
Morality is/are the principles concerning the distinction between right and wrong or good and bad behavior. Those are subjective terms, theist may derive them from their scripture but it has nothing to do with the term. My morality is my guide to right and wrong and good and bad. My societal contract is more made up of the laws of the land in a secular society. There are many things that are immoral in my estimation (or others for that matter) but are still legal and vice versa.
You name a number of social or logistical consequence in opposition of baning legal abortion (a position I have NOT ONCE taken) that have nothing to do with it's MORALITY. Sometimes doing something wrong is for the greater good and sometimes it is not, but that is not the arguement that seems to be here. Killing an innocent person is immoral, but if that death would guarantee the end of a deadly disease is it the right thing for society to do? don't know but that doesn;t neccessarily change the morality of the action.
It's seems to me that your position is inconsistent. OTOH, you seem to imply that morality is subjective but then you make claims like "killing innocent people" is morally wrong as if that was an absolute objective moral position. That is, it is wrong regardless of circumstances or factors such a deed might have been done. You can't have both ways. I invite you to re-examine your position: either you believe that moral values are subjective, in which case a deed is morally right/wrong depending on certain factors and what are those factors; or they are objective and certain deeds are always right/wrong regardless of any factors, in which case you need to prove that objective moral values do exist.
