RE: Abortion is morally wrong
August 24, 2014 at 11:26 pm
(This post was last modified: August 24, 2014 at 11:31 pm by answer-is-42.)
(August 19, 2014 at 8:27 am)bennyboy Wrote:(August 17, 2014 at 1:31 pm)answer-is-42 Wrote: Prereq: A fetus is a subject (NOT DEBATING THIS ISSUES IN THIS ARGUEMENT)Being responsible in general and imagining a social contract with a bundle of cells
1) Responsibility for the consequences of your voluntary actions is moral
2) Sex is a voluntary action and pregnancy is a consequence
3) Abortion is by definition a FAILURE to be responsible to the fetus (subject of action for that action
4) THERE FORE (a word I have used MULTIPLE TIMES) abortion is not moral.
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First, I have not shouted FAILURE AT anyone - I was EMPHASIZING the word in the context of the sentence (dumba$$) not contextually directed at anyone so stating that I have done so ("please stop shouting FAILURE at people who disagree with you." - bold added by me) it is intellectually dishonest and a true straw man arguement.
Regarding morality - each persons morality is there own, I have not disputed that. I have stated my case for why my morality leads to me to believe that abortion is usually immoral - I have NEVER demanded that any DO anything (again dumba$$) if you disagree- well my posts are here, please quote my fallicy and I will gladly apologize.
Back to your arguement. If you read my arguement you would see that I began by stating that the pre-requistite for this arugement is that the fetus is a moral subject/agent/{whatever pompous term you want to put in here}/being. If you do not hold to that belief - as I have stated many times - then this arguement is null from the outset. Whether you should or shouldn't have that belief is a seperate and interesting debate that I would like to have someday (maybe start a thread - that would be fun) but not within the context of this thread. PLEASE READ MY DAMN POSTS.
You state that you only have a responsibility to the woman you impregnate. If she gives birth to a child, then do you have nothing more then financial responsibilty to the child? (I know this is a little off topic and does not really go with my arguement, I'm conceeding that up front but I am just curious to learn more about your morality framework). If you do believe that the fetus is a being then you must have a moral obligation to them as well. As a male (I;m assuming from the context) there is little physically you can do during the gestation, but let me ask a theoritical question. If you could cause a spontanous abortion to the fetus without in anyway effecting the mother (so as to maintain her rights to her body) would it be immoral of you to do so without the consent of the mother? Again, not really directly related to my arguement, but curious about you moral positions and the justifications for them.
Finally "It means accepting that your actions have consequences, and attempting to minimize bad ones. To many, this means not allowing a child to be brought into the world with disadvantageous circumstances." Couple issues. This seems to justify the eradication of anyone who is in a disadvantageous circumstance. Can we go start shooting homeless people because they would be better off dead? What criteria do you use to decide that is better for someELSE to be dead then alive in a given circumstance? Finally minimizing bad outcomes does not really have anything to do with my moral arguement. You can minimize poverty by killing the poor (see above) but does that make it moral? Morality as i see it is about what is right and wrong, not what maximizes good or bad outcomes.
(August 22, 2014 at 1:38 am)Godslayer Wrote: Is this thread really still a thing? Abortion is clearly not immoral. Get the fuck out of here theist morons.First --
FUCK YOU.
I'm not a theist and have repeatly proved that point. Even IF i was (again not) that HAS NOTHING TO DO with my moral arguements. This is a moral question, and if you don't think so then you are a dumba$$ and you should get out of this thread - what did you think you were going to see in a thread labelled abortion is morally wrong? LOL CATS?
If you have an arguement why you believe that abortion is not immoral - you have made a positive claim - then please give it to support your claim or directly address those that have been given. If you have a problem with a theist arguement (as would I) fine - state theism has no validity to you. But I have given a completely secular rational for my belief.
