(September 5, 2014 at 7:31 am)Michael Wrote: It's certainly a requirement for engagement with the Euthyphro dilemma. But it's not at all required in Christian theology. 'God is love'. But I'm pretty sure we're not going to agree on this one.
Frankly, I think this is a huge dodge. I really hate to say it, but all this is is you putting yourself down one horn of the dilemma and trying your hardest not to say so.
Quote:For two reasons. Firstly on a pragmatic level, because if we said 'Satan is good' then that would be very much at odds with 'goodness' as we apply it at a mundane level, to other men. It would require goodness in the supernatural realm to have no, or even an opposite, relationship to what we normally consider good in the Earthly realm. It would be an affront to our conscience. It wouldn't make any sense to me. Secondly I can't see how to make sense of the idea of goodness being something that we get from a creature rather than the creator (not that I am sure that I see Satan as a specific creature, but that's a whole other discussion!).
See, here you're saying two different things, and one of them is directly contradictory to your claim that god's nature defines morality: on the one hand you're arguing for god's authority as a moral law giver, but when pressed on how you came to attribute that authority to god you cite the earthly effects of moral actions first. Either this is a circular argument (I know that god is good because the moral understanding he placed within me tells me that the things he's programmed me to believe are good, feel like they are good to my conscience which he gave me...) or you're saying that you first made a determination yourself that god's moral laws are good, and then opted to follow them, meaning that it's the content of the laws and not the authority of the lawgiver that you follow, and further that if god's commands were not moral as you understand them then you would not find god's nature to be moral.
As regards Satan, your answer there, that he's a creature of creation and not a creator himself, relies upon the presumption that the biblical account of him is accurate and not in any way distorted... which presupposes that god is good and would not lie, which he absolutely would do if Satan was the good one and god was attempting to discredit him.
If I was the evil one of the two and I wanted people to follow me the first thing I would do is spread the claim that I was the good one and that other guy just wants to deceive you for personal gain. Just being the dominant voice in the conversation doesn't imply that the account you're telling is perfectly accurate.
"YOU take the hard look in the mirror. You are everything that is wrong with this world. The only thing important to you, is you." - ronedee
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