RE: Atheistic Dogma- Scientific Fundamentalism
September 20, 2014 at 3:15 pm
(This post was last modified: September 20, 2014 at 3:22 pm by The Grand Nudger.)
I've been trying to think of a succinct way, SS, to encapsulate my thoughts on your position - and our now communal metaphor. In response to the argument of "what if the unknown unknown"-
That would require that some here-to-for unobserved effect - which rubs against what we do know of how such effects are or could be achieved be discovered. Further, that some arrangement allowing for that effect (with all of it;s ported problems) be discovered - as we've never seen consciousness "create" a brick wall under it's own steam - and we aren't exactly at a loss as to explain why we haven't seen that. Then, finally, if we weren't already scaling the cliff - we'd have to observe a consciousness entirely unlike any consciousness we've ever had any experience with, not in any way bound by or subject to the quirks that -every single example of consciousness- is bound by and subject to. And then, finally, after finding all of that -just to make it possible- we'd have to show, somehow, that it was not just something that said consciousness could do - but that it -did do-.
Now, back to our metaphor. You think that "chapter 2" is going to contain all of that (and I could probably imagine alot more qualifiers if I spent any time at it - but that's all you get for now) -at the least-.......when chapter 1 says "Nope to all of the above -even in principle-" ? To me, that sounds like a hell of a longshot. We'd have to be utterly wrong about...well...just about everything, before we even approached a place where your position was "sort-of" right. If we had a dollar to bet, we could make trillions - but I think we'd just lose our dollar. None of this, mind you, irks me. You;re free to wonder such things. Claiming that anything in our body of scientific knowledge supports even the loosest reading of your position - however, is aggravating. It doesn't - and you haven't even begun to make that argument - which you've been repeatedly asked to make. You've made a claim of -if not knowledge, damn near knowledge - and when we turn over the rock....there's nothing there.
Is my position a little more clear in your mind after that?
That would require that some here-to-for unobserved effect - which rubs against what we do know of how such effects are or could be achieved be discovered. Further, that some arrangement allowing for that effect (with all of it;s ported problems) be discovered - as we've never seen consciousness "create" a brick wall under it's own steam - and we aren't exactly at a loss as to explain why we haven't seen that. Then, finally, if we weren't already scaling the cliff - we'd have to observe a consciousness entirely unlike any consciousness we've ever had any experience with, not in any way bound by or subject to the quirks that -every single example of consciousness- is bound by and subject to. And then, finally, after finding all of that -just to make it possible- we'd have to show, somehow, that it was not just something that said consciousness could do - but that it -did do-.
Now, back to our metaphor. You think that "chapter 2" is going to contain all of that (and I could probably imagine alot more qualifiers if I spent any time at it - but that's all you get for now) -at the least-.......when chapter 1 says "Nope to all of the above -even in principle-" ? To me, that sounds like a hell of a longshot. We'd have to be utterly wrong about...well...just about everything, before we even approached a place where your position was "sort-of" right. If we had a dollar to bet, we could make trillions - but I think we'd just lose our dollar. None of this, mind you, irks me. You;re free to wonder such things. Claiming that anything in our body of scientific knowledge supports even the loosest reading of your position - however, is aggravating. It doesn't - and you haven't even begun to make that argument - which you've been repeatedly asked to make. You've made a claim of -if not knowledge, damn near knowledge - and when we turn over the rock....there's nothing there.
Is my position a little more clear in your mind after that?
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