RE: Existence of Israel is fulfillment of Biblical prophesies
June 26, 2010 at 9:49 am
(This post was last modified: June 26, 2010 at 12:16 pm by Caecilian.)
(June 25, 2010 at 7:33 pm)remza Wrote:(June 25, 2010 at 1:33 pm)Caecilian Wrote: Theophilus was clearly very well acquainted with the OT, but equally clearly had never even heard of jesus. Why not? Perhaps because jesus never actually existed- he was a literary device for re-telling the accumulated religious and moral sayings of the Hebrew people.
The bible is a collection of myths. Wake up and look at the facts.
Jesus a clever literary device... Not the strongest position to take I am afraid, I am a biased "oily one" though.
Don't associate me with the sensational Christian Zionist camp either.
The use of stock figures as mouthpieces for religious/ spiritual teachings and prophecies is incredibly common. Its a way of giving weight and authenticity to what is being said.
For example, theres an entire genre of Ancient Egyptian literature called Sebayt, which translates roughly as 'ethical teachings'. Some prominent examples are The Maxims of Ptahhotep and The Instruction of Amenemope. Did Ptahhotep or Amenemope exist? It doesn't really matter. As they appear in the texts they are literary devices- mythical teachers who act as mouthpieces for wise sayings that would almost certainly be already familiar to the reader. Thats how the literary conventions of Sebayt worked.
A more recent example is the figure of Merlin. Mediaeval writers used 'Merlin' as a device for giving authenticity to their prophetic texts- thus for example the 'Prophecies of Merlin' found in Geoffery of Monmouth. Link here for anyone who is interested.
The ancient jews used similar devices- Moses, David and Elijah are all stock figures of the type that I've described. Their 'biographies' in the bible are riddled with anachronisms, and are incredibly formulaic. But thats just the point. They're mythical figures like Ptahhotep and Merlin, whose function it is to convey the values and wisdom of the jewish people to future generations. The anachronisms are irrelevant- they exist as figures for the time that the bible was written down- many centuries after their alleged existence. And the formulae are intentional- formulas gives power to myth.
And jesus? He's a similar sort of figure. At least thats what Thompson argues in The Messiah Myth. And I'm strongly inclined to agree.
Many of his putative sayings, and much of his 'biography', is clearly 'borrowed' from other sources, notably the 'biography' and teachings of Elijah. Theres no evidence outside of the bible for his existence. There is evidence that early christians either hadn't heard of him at all (e.g. Theophilus), or viewed him as a powerful spirit rather than as a god and/or person (e.g. the author of Revelations). So his being a literary device is at least plausible, especially in the context of the Ancient Near East, where such devices were common.
Or at least: its way more plausible than the theory that he actually existed. Now thats not the strongest position, I'm afraid. Not by a long way.
He who desires to worship God must harbor no childish illusions about the matter but bravely renounce his liberty and humanity.
Mikhail Bakunin
A casual stroll through the lunatic asylum shows that faith does not prove anything
Friedrich Nietzsche
Mikhail Bakunin
A casual stroll through the lunatic asylum shows that faith does not prove anything
Friedrich Nietzsche