Your stance on Hard Atheism

[Mister Agenda]

You are spouting a lot of nonsense, making unevidenced claims.

You are also delusional. So, there's that.

Hundreds of millions of people died under explicitly atheist regimes during the 20th century. If you think there is no evidence for that, I suggest you visit some mass graves some time.

If you think you're not a hypocrite for whining about atheists blaming Christianity for violence done in the name of Christianity, I suggest you visit a dictionary some time. You're talking out of both sides of your mouth with this 'civilzed dialogue' business.

Do you believe in the law of identity? Is 'A' always 'A'? Then you should get why it's stupid to compare atheism to anything but theism. Comparing communism and Christianity is comparing like things, comparing communism and theism is comparing unlike things. Christianity and communism are ideologies, one being religious and the other not. Atheism and theism are differing opinions on the topic of the existence of any deities. If you want to indite the atheists here and be intellectually honest about it, try comparing humanism (the moral philosophy most of us hold to) and Christianity...but you won't, because you're NOT intellectually honest and Christianity doesn't fare well in that comparison, now does it?

There is also nothing holding you back from murdering everybody in your way if that's what you want to do and you feel you can get away with it.

It's a little soon to be playing the 'atheists have no morals card' isn't it, mister 'I want a more civilized dialogue'? Isn't that a topic worthy of its own thread? I think you shouldn't derail your own thread, but it's a free country.

Tell me: Why was Stalin wrong to murder millions upon millions of people? He got away with it didn't he? So what was objectively wrong about it besides you not liking it?

If only there was a good being somewhere powerful enough to stop Stalin, eh? And if only he had learned not to murder people when he went to seminary. And if only the Russian Orthodox Church hadn't supported the Tsars to the point that so many of the common people came to hate them that it was easy for an anti-religion ideology like Stalinism to take root. If only so many Christians weren't utterly mystified when they wrack their brains trying to think of a reason we shouldn't murder people if we don't think God doesn't want us to.

And yes, there have been many atheist groups who used terrorism tactics throughout history.

You haven't named one yet. The Tigers weren't an atheist organization, they were a nationalist organization fighting for secession.

---

Again, hard atheism has been responsible for much more serious genocides than religion.

I see you like to use 'hard atheism' as a synonym for 'totalitarian communism'. You continue to impress on me that you're intellectually dishonest.

If you claim that this was not due to their atheism, I can simply turn around and claim the same about religion.

You could if atheism was the same kind of thing as religion. Atheism is the same kind of thing as theism: an opinion on the topic of the reality of gods. Communism is the same kind of thing as Christianity: an ideology that leads to specific acts in an effort to conform to that ideology. What you can claim the same thing about is theism: Mere theism never led anyone to kill anybody. And neither did mere atheism. Which puts you in a spot, because you REALLY, REALLY want us atheists (mostly humanists) to be responsible for genocides, and it must be frustrating for you that we don't feel any more connected to Stalin's crimes because we're atheists than you feel connected to the crimes of human-sacrificing Aztecs because you're a theist.

The fact is, hard atheists have no problem with genocide because they don't even consider the possibility of ever being held accountable.

What a fucking hypocrite you are, mister 'civilized dialogue'. And what a liar. You know we have a problem with genocide, that's why you're accusing us of not having a problem with it...you know it's hurtful. Did you just come here to troll? Because I refuse to believe you're really as much of a vacuous idiot as you're making yourself out to be. Your spelling is too good for me to accept that.

---

Hitchens makes a pretty compelling case that the so-called 'atheist regimes' are functionally no different than theocracies. This is particularly true in societies like Stalinist Russia and the current nightmare than is North Korea. They simply use a political figure in place of a divine one and oppressive bureaucracies in place of a traditional church. A 'cult of personality' is still a cult.

Boru

But an atheist cult. Except possibly the North Korean one. I have trouble reconciling 'they're atheists' with 'their dear leader's moods affect the weather and the old president was carried to a sacred mountain by a flock of cranes'.

---

I am not required to provide evidence for their motivations as no such evidence exists.

And in that situation, the only thing that should make you refrain from making claims about their 'hard atheism' is intellectual honesty. Lacking that, and apparently lacking any objective morality to tell you that it's wrong, you carry on with your baseless assertions.

---

Claiming factual knowledge that a god or gods cannot possibly exist. As irrational as that is, it is much more common than you would think.

Again, not as common as claiming factual knowledge that a particular god is real by theists. And it's irrational either way. Revelation has not been demonstrated to be a way of acquiring knowledge at all, let alone a good one.

And then there's me: I have factual knowledge that some gods don't exist, but lack factual knowledge that certain other proposed or potentially proposed gods exist. I'm a gnostic atheist towards Yahweh as portrayed in the Old Testament, but an agnostic atheist towards the God of deism, for instance.

---

This is a thread about hard atheism versus agnostic atheism. Those commenting on other subjects have derailed it and tried to turn the conversation around to attacking me and my religion. I have only reciprocated in kind when asked to. I will field no other replies that are off topic.

So now it was US who brought up Stalin and atheists not having a problem with genocide? If you won't stay on topic, why should we?