RE: If the universe was fine tuned for our life...
December 4, 2014 at 11:43 am
(This post was last modified: December 4, 2014 at 11:45 am by The Grand Nudger.)
(December 4, 2014 at 11:29 am)Heywood Wrote: The rules can be identical. It can't be the same space. I was specific about that in my definition.Well, since every example you've offered is "the same space" we still have no examples of a subreality to consider or make observations -from-.
Quote: I don't believe your chess example satisfies my definition for that reason. Your D&D example....however..... I don't have a problem with it. I have long thought that one can create a sub reality in ones mind or imagination. But for the sake of argument, lets grant that chess, card games, etc are all the kinds of things that satisfy the definition of sub reality I offered. All those things you have mention....none of them exist unless intelligence exists.....Well, without intelligence there would would be fewer folks around to enjoy them, anyway.
Quote:so all those things add credibility to my inductive argument....that sub realities appear to only exists as the product of intelligence.What argument?
Quote: Again, I challenge you or anyone to find something that satisfies my definition of sub reality....that doesn't require intelligence to exist. If you can...my argument is demolished.-you keep saying this...but I don't think that it's true.....
Quote:It is possible that you are a simulant.An amazing possibility, agreed - but that doesn;t require any subreality, or any alternate space to accomplish - so ultimately it says nothing about any "sub reality".
Quote:From your perspective our reality is as real as it gets. However from the perspective of those running the simulation...your reality doesn't really exist.There's no requirement that anyone be "outside of the simulation". If it's a simulation, it exists - if our observations of simulations hold and can be used in this manner...then you could point to the hardware and say "there it is" - just like I can in reality..
Quote: Its just a procedural generation running inside a box.-which, as a defining characteristic - do not require intellect.
Quote:[quote]That's something we ought to be able to accomplish without any sub-reality...and I sure hope we don't actually need one...because then we'd be fucked.
The thing about all the sub realities we have discussed is none of them are fine tuned for sustained emergent complexity. I have played with evolution simulators and they are cool....but the emergent complexity always stalls out...it always plateaus. I predict that as we learn to fine tune the sub realities to create sustained emergent complexity....we will begin to see things like consciousness emerge from them.
Quote:One dream I have had is to take a game like Skyrim...and make the monsters in it subject to natural selection.....but now I am rambling.Try SPORE.
If you want to see something complex emerge, try Eyewire.
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