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Atheists who become Christians
#68
RE: Atheists who become Christians
(December 21, 2014 at 12:05 pm)Drich Wrote: The next step as after I was a believer, and began to fall into the trap of religion (worshiping the method of worship rather than God.)

http://atheistforums.org/thread-13378.html

That's an interesting story, but it doesn't necessarily mean that Christianity is true. In fact, believiing in Christianity requires you to ignore the historical evidence indicating fundamental changes to Judaism and Christianity over the centuries - not at all like God was inspiring those religions. Also, if Christianity is true, we should expect to see God doing something, and scientists should be able to measure that activity. Even if God's activity is limited to helping Christians find their car keys more often than non-Christians, this affect should be measurable.

So there are many reasons to disbelieve in Christianity, and if you know about hallucinations, then you should be very skeptical of guardian angels bumming money off you at a convenience store. If the guardian angel was a hallucination, then of course it would know everything about your life. If you were inspired by predictions of the hallucination, then you might work hard to fulfill those predictions.

If a guardian angel tells you that 1 + 1 = 3, are you going to believe him? Christianity is the equivalent of 1 + 1 = 3. (IMO)

EDIT: Even if you accept that you experienced something supernatural, it would be more reasonable to suspect that you were simply hearing a message from some non-Christian entity in the language of your religious beliefs. For example, in the Martian Chronicles, a martian appeared to be Jesus to a priest, because that was the language the priest would understand.
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Messages In This Thread
Atheists who become Christians - by watchamadoodle - December 21, 2014 at 10:36 am
RE: Atheists who become Christians - by abaris - December 21, 2014 at 10:41 am
RE: Atheists who become Christians - by watchamadoodle - December 21, 2014 at 11:14 am
RE: Atheists who become Christians - by Chad32 - December 21, 2014 at 10:43 am
RE: Atheists who become Christians - by Silver - December 21, 2014 at 1:23 pm
RE: Atheists who become Christians - by IATIA - December 21, 2014 at 10:44 am
RE: Atheists who become Christians - by Alex K - December 21, 2014 at 10:55 am
RE: Atheists who become Christians - by watchamadoodle - December 21, 2014 at 11:27 am
RE: Atheists who become Christians - by Drich - December 21, 2014 at 11:11 am
RE: Atheists who become Christians - by Spooky - December 21, 2014 at 11:18 am
RE: Atheists who become Christians - by Drich - December 21, 2014 at 11:33 am
RE: Atheists who become Christians - by Alex K - December 21, 2014 at 11:51 am
RE: Atheists who become Christians - by Spooky - December 21, 2014 at 11:55 am
RE: Atheists who become Christians - by Drich - December 21, 2014 at 12:02 pm
RE: Atheists who become Christians - by Chad32 - December 21, 2014 at 11:19 am
RE: Atheists who become Christians - by Mudhammam - December 21, 2014 at 11:42 am
RE: Atheists who become Christians - by Drich - December 21, 2014 at 11:55 am
RE: Atheists who become Christians - by Mudhammam - December 21, 2014 at 12:04 pm
RE: Atheists who become Christians - by Drich - December 21, 2014 at 12:13 pm
RE: Atheists who become Christians - by abaris - December 21, 2014 at 12:19 pm
RE: Atheists who become Christians - by Drich - December 21, 2014 at 12:39 pm
RE: Atheists who become Christians - by Mudhammam - December 21, 2014 at 12:54 pm
RE: Atheists who become Christians - by Drich - December 21, 2014 at 1:45 pm
RE: Atheists who become Christians - by Mudhammam - December 21, 2014 at 3:16 pm
RE: Atheists who become Christians - by Thumpalumpacus - December 21, 2014 at 3:51 pm
RE: Atheists who become Christians - by abaris - December 21, 2014 at 3:54 pm
RE: Atheists who become Christians - by Drich - December 21, 2014 at 8:51 pm
RE: Atheists who become Christians - by Mudhammam - December 21, 2014 at 9:01 pm
RE: Atheists who become Christians - by Minimalist - December 21, 2014 at 2:16 pm
RE: Atheists who become Christians - by Whateverist - December 21, 2014 at 5:11 pm
RE: Atheists who become Christians - by h4ym4n - December 23, 2014 at 6:43 am
RE: Atheists who become Christians - by Mister Agenda - December 23, 2014 at 11:06 am
RE: Atheists who become Christians - by Chad32 - December 21, 2014 at 11:44 am
RE: Atheists who become Christians - by abaris - December 21, 2014 at 11:51 am
RE: Atheists who become Christians - by Chad32 - December 21, 2014 at 11:57 am
RE: Atheists who become Christians - by Drich - December 21, 2014 at 12:05 pm
RE: Atheists who become Christians - by watchamadoodle - December 21, 2014 at 3:19 pm
RE: Atheists who become Christians - by Drich - December 21, 2014 at 9:14 pm
RE: Atheists who become Christians - by Nope - December 21, 2014 at 9:21 pm
RE: Atheists who become Christians - by watchamadoodle - December 21, 2014 at 10:20 pm
RE: Atheists who become Christians - by Mudhammam - December 21, 2014 at 12:05 pm
RE: Atheists who become Christians - by Chad32 - December 21, 2014 at 12:07 pm
RE: Atheists who become Christians - by robvalue - December 21, 2014 at 12:12 pm
RE: Atheists who become Christians - by Chad32 - December 21, 2014 at 12:17 pm
RE: Atheists who become Christians - by Drich - December 21, 2014 at 12:35 pm
RE: Atheists who become Christians - by robvalue - December 21, 2014 at 12:19 pm
RE: Atheists who become Christians - by robvalue - December 21, 2014 at 12:24 pm
RE: Atheists who become Christians - by Drich - December 21, 2014 at 1:35 pm
RE: Atheists who become Christians - by Nope - December 21, 2014 at 1:40 pm
RE: Atheists who become Christians - by abaris - December 21, 2014 at 1:45 pm
RE: Atheists who become Christians - by Wyrd of Gawd - December 22, 2014 at 3:45 am
RE: Atheists who become Christians - by robvalue - December 21, 2014 at 12:36 pm
RE: Atheists who become Christians - by abaris - December 21, 2014 at 12:39 pm
RE: Atheists who become Christians - by Chad32 - December 21, 2014 at 12:49 pm
RE: Atheists who become Christians - by Drich - December 21, 2014 at 1:41 pm
RE: Atheists who become Christians - by Silver - December 21, 2014 at 1:49 pm
RE: Atheists who become Christians - by Nope - December 21, 2014 at 1:03 pm
RE: Atheists who become Christians - by abaris - December 21, 2014 at 1:06 pm
RE: Atheists who become Christians - by Nope - December 21, 2014 at 1:09 pm
RE: Atheists who become Christians - by Thackerie - December 21, 2014 at 2:15 pm
RE: Atheists who become Christians - by Exian - December 21, 2014 at 3:04 pm
RE: Atheists who become Christians - by Drich - December 21, 2014 at 4:30 pm
RE: Atheists who become Christians - by Nope - December 21, 2014 at 5:23 pm
RE: Atheists who become Christians - by Drich - December 21, 2014 at 10:38 pm
RE: Atheists who become Christians - by Nope - December 22, 2014 at 12:06 am
RE: Atheists who become Christians - by dyresand - December 22, 2014 at 12:11 am
RE: Atheists who become Christians - by Nope - December 22, 2014 at 12:22 am
RE: Atheists who become Christians - by dyresand - December 22, 2014 at 12:28 am
RE: Atheists who become Christians - by Mudhammam - December 22, 2014 at 12:18 am
RE: Atheists who become Christians - by Drich - December 22, 2014 at 3:35 pm
RE: Atheists who become Christians - by Mister Agenda - December 23, 2014 at 10:57 am
RE: Atheists who become Christians - by watchamadoodle - December 22, 2014 at 10:31 am
RE: Atheists who become Christians - by Chad32 - December 21, 2014 at 1:03 pm
RE: Atheists who become Christians - by Nope - December 21, 2014 at 1:05 pm
RE: Atheists who become Christians - by Nope - December 21, 2014 at 1:47 pm
RE: Atheists who become Christians - by Elskidor - December 21, 2014 at 1:51 pm
RE: Atheists who become Christians - by strawdawg - December 21, 2014 at 1:58 pm
RE: Atheists who become Christians - by abaris - December 21, 2014 at 2:21 pm
RE: Atheists who become Christians - by Thumpalumpacus - December 21, 2014 at 3:46 pm
RE: Atheists who become Christians - by The Valkyrie - December 21, 2014 at 3:50 pm
RE: Atheists who become Christians - by Thumpalumpacus - December 22, 2014 at 3:14 am
RE: Atheists who become Christians - by TubbyTubby - December 21, 2014 at 2:12 pm
RE: Atheists who become Christians - by TubbyTubby - December 21, 2014 at 2:17 pm
RE: Atheists who become Christians - by strawdawg - December 21, 2014 at 2:22 pm
RE: Atheists who become Christians - by Silver - December 21, 2014 at 2:25 pm
RE: Atheists who become Christians - by abaris - December 21, 2014 at 2:25 pm
RE: Atheists who become Christians - by Jackalope - December 21, 2014 at 2:49 pm
RE: Atheists who become Christians - by strawdawg - December 21, 2014 at 2:46 pm
RE: Atheists who become Christians - by abaris - December 21, 2014 at 2:49 pm
RE: Atheists who become Christians - by Kitty Galore - December 21, 2014 at 2:46 pm
RE: Atheists who become Christians - by Jackalope - December 21, 2014 at 2:58 pm
RE: Atheists who become Christians - by abaris - December 21, 2014 at 3:04 pm
RE: Atheists who become Christians - by The Valkyrie - December 21, 2014 at 3:18 pm
RE: Atheists who become Christians - by Nope - December 21, 2014 at 9:03 pm
RE: Atheists who become Christians - by dyresand - December 21, 2014 at 9:29 pm
RE: Atheists who become Christians - by MysticKnight - December 21, 2014 at 9:33 pm
RE: Atheists who become Christians - by dyresand - December 21, 2014 at 9:37 pm
RE: Atheists who become Christians - by The Valkyrie - December 21, 2014 at 9:44 pm
RE: Atheists who become Christians - by watchamadoodle - December 22, 2014 at 10:15 am
RE: Atheists who become Christians - by rexbeccarox - December 21, 2014 at 11:41 pm
RE: Atheists who become Christians - by dyresand - December 21, 2014 at 11:59 pm
RE: Atheists who become Christians - by Nope - December 22, 2014 at 12:33 am
RE: Atheists who become Christians - by TheRealJoeFish - December 22, 2014 at 1:16 am
RE: Atheists who become Christians - by robvalue - December 22, 2014 at 3:47 am
RE: Atheists who become Christians - by Thumpalumpacus - December 22, 2014 at 4:15 am
RE: Atheists who become Christians - by robvalue - December 22, 2014 at 4:24 am
RE: Atheists who become Christians - by Thumpalumpacus - December 22, 2014 at 4:56 am
RE: Atheists who become Christians - by robvalue - December 22, 2014 at 5:47 am
RE: Atheists who become Christians - by Nope - December 22, 2014 at 10:18 am
RE: Atheists who become Christians - by dyresand - December 22, 2014 at 10:25 am
RE: Atheists who become Christians - by Thumpalumpacus - December 22, 2014 at 1:38 pm
RE: Atheists who become Christians - by Thumpalumpacus - December 25, 2014 at 2:42 am
RE: Atheists who become Christians - by RobbyPants - December 22, 2014 at 10:36 am
RE: Atheists who become Christians - by strawdawg - December 22, 2014 at 11:43 am
RE: Atheists who become Christians - by watchamadoodle - December 22, 2014 at 12:05 pm
RE: Atheists who become Christians - by Nope - December 22, 2014 at 2:24 pm
RE: Atheists who become Christians - by strawdawg - December 22, 2014 at 3:05 pm
RE: Atheists who become Christians - by Thumpalumpacus - December 23, 2014 at 1:15 am
RE: Atheists who become Christians - by robvalue - December 22, 2014 at 11:49 am
RE: Atheists who become Christians - by strawdawg - December 22, 2014 at 12:52 pm
RE: Atheists who become Christians - by IATIA - December 22, 2014 at 12:59 pm
RE: Atheists who become Christians - by abaris - December 22, 2014 at 1:06 pm
RE: Atheists who become Christians - by robvalue - December 22, 2014 at 12:24 pm
RE: Atheists who become Christians - by abaris - December 22, 2014 at 12:37 pm
RE: Atheists who become Christians - by Jenny A - December 26, 2014 at 1:12 pm
RE: Atheists who become Christians - by abaris - December 26, 2014 at 1:27 pm
RE: Atheists who become Christians - by robvalue - December 22, 2014 at 12:40 pm
RE: Atheists who become Christians - by robvalue - December 22, 2014 at 12:56 pm
RE: Atheists who become Christians - by Mister Agenda - December 22, 2014 at 1:46 pm
RE: Atheists who become Christians - by robvalue - December 22, 2014 at 2:03 pm
RE: Atheists who become Christians - by Drich - December 22, 2014 at 4:35 pm
RE: Atheists who become Christians - by dyresand - December 22, 2014 at 5:57 pm
RE: Atheists who become Christians - by Drich - December 22, 2014 at 10:08 pm
RE: Atheists who become Christians - by robvalue - December 22, 2014 at 6:46 pm
RE: Atheists who become Christians - by Mudhammam - December 23, 2014 at 2:31 am
RE: Atheists who become Christians - by Drich - December 23, 2014 at 8:28 am
RE: Atheists who become Christians - by Mudhammam - December 23, 2014 at 9:24 am
RE: Atheists who become Christians - by fr0d0 - December 23, 2014 at 7:39 am
RE: Atheists who become Christians - by abaris - December 23, 2014 at 9:02 am
RE: Atheists who become Christians - by watchamadoodle - December 23, 2014 at 9:44 am
RE: Atheists who become Christians - by Mister Agenda - December 23, 2014 at 11:30 am
RE: Atheists who become Christians - by fr0d0 - December 24, 2014 at 9:08 pm
RE: Atheists who become Christians - by abaris - December 24, 2014 at 9:17 pm
RE: Atheists who become Christians - by Violet - December 24, 2014 at 9:19 pm
RE: Atheists who become Christians - by abaris - December 25, 2014 at 4:34 am
RE: Atheists who become Christians - by watchamadoodle - December 25, 2014 at 9:39 am
RE: Atheists who become Christians - by fr0d0 - December 26, 2014 at 9:35 am
RE: Atheists who become Christians - by watchamadoodle - December 26, 2014 at 10:00 am
RE: Atheists who become Christians - by Mister Agenda - December 26, 2014 at 12:30 pm
RE: Atheists who become Christians - by Thumpalumpacus - December 26, 2014 at 3:11 pm
RE: Atheists who become Christians - by Mister Agenda - December 26, 2014 at 12:17 pm
RE: Atheists who become Christians - by robvalue - December 23, 2014 at 7:43 am
RE: Atheists who become Christians - by Tonus - December 23, 2014 at 10:42 am
RE: Atheists who become Christians - by robvalue - December 23, 2014 at 9:04 am
RE: Atheists who become Christians - by robvalue - December 23, 2014 at 10:28 am
RE: Atheists who become Christians - by watchamadoodle - December 23, 2014 at 11:14 am
RE: Atheists who become Christians - by Nope - December 23, 2014 at 11:06 am
RE: Atheists who become Christians - by dyresand - December 24, 2014 at 11:55 pm
RE: Atheists who become Christians - by Nope - December 23, 2014 at 11:23 am
RE: Atheists who become Christians - by Violet - December 24, 2014 at 9:14 pm
RE: Atheists who become Christians - by robvalue - December 25, 2014 at 3:06 am
RE: Atheists who become Christians - by fr0d0 - December 26, 2014 at 9:27 am
RE: Atheists who become Christians - by robvalue - December 25, 2014 at 4:52 am
RE: Atheists who become Christians - by robvalue - December 25, 2014 at 5:59 am
RE: Atheists who become Christians - by robvalue - December 25, 2014 at 9:57 am
RE: Atheists who become Christians - by robvalue - December 26, 2014 at 9:33 am
RE: Atheists who become Christians - by fr0d0 - December 26, 2014 at 9:39 am
RE: Atheists who become Christians - by The Grand Nudger - December 26, 2014 at 9:34 am
RE: Atheists who become Christians - by robvalue - December 26, 2014 at 9:37 am
RE: Atheists who become Christians - by robvalue - December 26, 2014 at 9:43 am
RE: Atheists who become Christians - by fr0d0 - December 26, 2014 at 9:49 am
RE: Atheists who become Christians - by robvalue - December 26, 2014 at 9:50 am
RE: Atheists who become Christians - by fr0d0 - December 26, 2014 at 9:59 am
RE: Atheists who become Christians - by The Grand Nudger - December 26, 2014 at 9:53 am
RE: Atheists who become Christians - by fr0d0 - December 26, 2014 at 10:04 am
RE: Atheists who become Christians - by The Grand Nudger - December 26, 2014 at 10:02 am
RE: Atheists who become Christians - by robvalue - December 26, 2014 at 10:37 am
RE: Atheists who become Christians - by fr0d0 - December 26, 2014 at 11:14 am
RE: Atheists who become Christians - by Thumpalumpacus - December 27, 2014 at 12:02 am
RE: Atheists who become Christians - by fr0d0 - December 26, 2014 at 12:23 pm
RE: Atheists who become Christians - by Silver - December 26, 2014 at 1:06 pm
RE: Atheists who become Christians - by fr0d0 - December 26, 2014 at 1:15 pm
RE: Atheists who become Christians - by Silver - December 26, 2014 at 1:20 pm
RE: Atheists who become Christians - by Nope - December 26, 2014 at 1:20 pm
RE: Atheists who become Christians - by fr0d0 - December 26, 2014 at 1:29 pm
RE: Atheists who become Christians - by Silver - December 26, 2014 at 2:28 pm
RE: Atheists who become Christians - by Faith No More - December 26, 2014 at 1:23 pm
RE: Atheists who become Christians - by Mister Agenda - December 26, 2014 at 1:40 pm
RE: Atheists who become Christians - by fr0d0 - December 26, 2014 at 1:43 pm
RE: Atheists who become Christians - by Mister Agenda - December 26, 2014 at 1:53 pm
RE: Atheists who become Christians - by Nope - December 26, 2014 at 1:55 pm
RE: Atheists who become Christians - by Cato - December 26, 2014 at 1:58 pm
RE: Atheists who become Christians - by fr0d0 - December 26, 2014 at 2:04 pm
RE: Atheists who become Christians - by Mister Agenda - December 26, 2014 at 2:07 pm
RE: Atheists who become Christians - by fr0d0 - December 26, 2014 at 2:09 pm
RE: Atheists who become Christians - by Mister Agenda - December 26, 2014 at 2:11 pm
RE: Atheists who become Christians - by Nope - December 26, 2014 at 2:11 pm
RE: Atheists who become Christians - by fr0d0 - December 26, 2014 at 2:36 pm
RE: Atheists who become Christians - by Silver - December 26, 2014 at 2:39 pm
RE: Atheists who become Christians - by fr0d0 - December 26, 2014 at 2:53 pm
RE: Atheists who become Christians - by abaris - December 26, 2014 at 2:51 pm
RE: Atheists who become Christians - by Whateverist - December 26, 2014 at 3:19 pm
RE: Atheists who become Christians - by Mister Agenda - December 26, 2014 at 4:05 pm
RE: Atheists who become Christians - by Silver - December 26, 2014 at 4:24 pm
RE: Atheists who become Christians - by abaris - December 26, 2014 at 4:28 pm
RE: Atheists who become Christians - by Thumpalumpacus - December 27, 2014 at 3:39 am
RE: Atheists who become Christians - by fr0d0 - December 26, 2014 at 3:21 pm
RE: Atheists who become Christians - by Whateverist - December 26, 2014 at 6:22 pm
RE: Atheists who become Christians - by fr0d0 - December 26, 2014 at 5:29 pm
RE: Atheists who become Christians - by Silver - December 26, 2014 at 5:30 pm
RE: Atheists who become Christians - by abaris - December 26, 2014 at 5:32 pm
RE: Atheists who become Christians - by Thumpalumpacus - December 30, 2014 at 12:15 pm
RE: Atheists who become Christians - by fr0d0 - December 26, 2014 at 5:47 pm
RE: Atheists who become Christians - by Mister Agenda - December 29, 2014 at 12:25 pm
RE: Atheists who become Christians - by fr0d0 - December 26, 2014 at 7:31 pm
RE: Atheists who become Christians - by abaris - December 26, 2014 at 7:35 pm
RE: Atheists who become Christians - by fr0d0 - December 26, 2014 at 9:26 pm
RE: Atheists who become Christians - by The Grand Nudger - December 26, 2014 at 10:37 pm
RE: Atheists who become Christians - by robvalue - December 27, 2014 at 3:01 am
RE: Atheists who become Christians - by robvalue - December 27, 2014 at 3:44 am
RE: Atheists who become Christians - by fr0d0 - December 27, 2014 at 6:58 am
RE: Atheists who become Christians - by robvalue - December 27, 2014 at 7:30 am
RE: Atheists who become Christians - by fr0d0 - December 27, 2014 at 7:55 am
RE: Atheists who become Christians - by Tonus - December 27, 2014 at 7:58 am
RE: Atheists who become Christians - by fr0d0 - December 27, 2014 at 8:10 am
RE: Atheists who become Christians - by Tonus - December 27, 2014 at 8:16 am
RE: Atheists who become Christians - by robvalue - December 27, 2014 at 7:59 am
RE: Atheists who become Christians - by fr0d0 - December 27, 2014 at 8:05 am
RE: Atheists who become Christians - by Whateverist - December 27, 2014 at 10:45 am
RE: Atheists who become Christians - by Thumpalumpacus - December 27, 2014 at 12:55 pm
RE: Atheists who become Christians - by robvalue - December 27, 2014 at 8:09 am
RE: Atheists who become Christians - by robvalue - December 27, 2014 at 8:13 am
RE: Atheists who become Christians - by fr0d0 - December 27, 2014 at 9:43 am
RE: Atheists who become Christians - by abaris - December 27, 2014 at 9:50 am
RE: Atheists who become Christians - by robvalue - December 27, 2014 at 8:18 am
RE: Atheists who become Christians - by robvalue - December 27, 2014 at 10:10 am
RE: Atheists who become Christians - by fr0d0 - December 27, 2014 at 10:10 am
RE: Atheists who become Christians - by abaris - December 27, 2014 at 10:14 am
RE: Atheists who become Christians - by fr0d0 - December 27, 2014 at 10:27 am
RE: Atheists who become Christians - by watchamadoodle - December 27, 2014 at 1:20 pm
RE: Atheists who become Christians - by robvalue - December 27, 2014 at 10:12 am
RE: Atheists who become Christians - by fr0d0 - December 27, 2014 at 10:22 am
RE: Atheists who become Christians - by robvalue - December 27, 2014 at 10:26 am
RE: Atheists who become Christians - by fr0d0 - December 27, 2014 at 4:28 pm
RE: Atheists who become Christians - by Whateverist - December 27, 2014 at 5:00 pm
RE: Atheists who become Christians - by watchamadoodle - December 29, 2014 at 2:48 pm
RE: Atheists who become Christians - by fr0d0 - December 27, 2014 at 5:27 pm
RE: Atheists who become Christians - by fr0d0 - December 29, 2014 at 3:36 pm
RE: Atheists who become Christians - by Mister Agenda - December 29, 2014 at 4:27 pm
RE: Atheists who become Christians - by fr0d0 - December 29, 2014 at 4:48 pm
RE: Atheists who become Christians - by JesusChristLover - December 29, 2014 at 6:36 pm
RE: Atheists who become Christians - by Whateverist - December 29, 2014 at 6:40 pm
RE: Atheists who become Christians - by watchamadoodle - December 29, 2014 at 8:36 pm
RE: Atheists who become Christians - by ronedee - December 29, 2014 at 9:05 pm
RE: Atheists who become Christians - by Whateverist - December 30, 2014 at 12:39 am
RE: Atheists who become Christians - by ronedee - December 31, 2014 at 10:15 pm
RE: Atheists who become Christians - by watchamadoodle - January 1, 2015 at 7:03 pm
RE: Atheists who become Christians - by abaris - December 30, 2014 at 11:05 am
RE: Atheists who become Christians - by Mudhammam - December 30, 2014 at 12:10 am
RE: Atheists who become Christians - by Mister Agenda - December 30, 2014 at 10:16 am
RE: Atheists who become Christians - by ronedee - December 31, 2014 at 11:24 pm
RE: Atheists who become Christians - by Mister Agenda - January 2, 2015 at 11:47 am
RE: Atheists who become Christians - by watchamadoodle - December 30, 2014 at 8:39 am
RE: Atheists who become Christians - by Alex K - December 30, 2014 at 9:05 am
RE: Atheists who become Christians - by The Grand Nudger - January 2, 2015 at 1:47 pm

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