RE: A Simple Rule
January 5, 2015 at 3:33 pm
(This post was last modified: January 5, 2015 at 3:49 pm by DeistPaladin.)
(January 5, 2015 at 2:16 pm)Mister Agenda Wrote: Because when someone born into a Muslim society stops being a Muslim, they no longer have a Muslim heritage? How does that work? I'm no longer a Christian but I certainly still have a Christian heritage....and THIS is the point where our communication breaks down.
There is no such thing as a Christian "heritage" or a Muslim "heritage". You can have an Arabic, Persian, Egyptian, North African, Bosnian, Somalian, Chechen or Indonesian heritage but not a "Muslim heritage".
Ideas are not a heritage. Religion is a collection of ideas. It can be adopted, changed or abandoned at will. Genetic makeup cannot.
I recently took a test that used my genetic material to determine my "heritage" to certain parts of the world. There is no such test for a religious heritage. Neither do I feel any affiliation with "Christianity" simply on the basis of my heritage.
Ideas must be subjected to inspection, criticism and ridicule with bad ideas tossed aside and good ideas needing no protection. People of genetic backgrounds, on the other hand, do need to be protected by society from discrimination or abuses on that basis. To describe religion as a heritage is to conflate these unrelated categories and offer protection to certain ideas.
(January 5, 2015 at 2:40 pm)Parkers Tan Wrote: He didn't say it was a race, or genetic;He was conflating Islam with "German", that just as it is unfair to criticize Germans for Nazism, it is unfair to criticize Islam for radical Islam. Please correct me if I misunderstood.
I am saying that German, as a heritage, is a genetic matter. Islam is a religion. The two are separate.
Quote:he said it was an accident of birth.Which I also contend it is not. You may indoctrinate a child to a Islam but there is no such thing as a "Muslim baby".
Quote:We all know that being born into a religion is a fact;I'm drawing a subtle but important distinction. One is indoctrinated to a religion but not born into it. I think we agree on the main points but I don't agree that any ideas are part of a protected identity.
Otherwise, any idea might be regarded as a "heritage" since children can be indoctrinated into any collection of ideas.
(January 5, 2015 at 3:15 pm)abaris Wrote: OK, judaism is also a religion.With the distinction that we're criticizing the Jewish religion, I have no problem doing so.
Antisemitism as I have understood it from history targets the people, not the belief in Yahweh. You couldn't escape the Nazi persecution or similar pogroms that were an ugly part of Christian history everywhere (not just Austria/Germany) if you became a non-practicing Jew.
Hence why I think your proposed "find/change" is unfair. Change to "Christianity" or "Scientology" and I have no problem.
Quote:As Parker said, you appear to be rather smart, so I have to assume you're willfully dodging the issue.No, I'm distinguishing ideas from a people.
Atheist Forums Hall of Shame:
"The trinity can be equated to having your cake and eating it too."
... -Lucent, trying to defend the Trinity concept
"(Yahweh's) actions are good because (Yahweh) is the ultimate standard of goodness. That’s not begging the question"
... -Statler Waldorf, Christian apologist
"The trinity can be equated to having your cake and eating it too."
... -Lucent, trying to defend the Trinity concept
"(Yahweh's) actions are good because (Yahweh) is the ultimate standard of goodness. That’s not begging the question"
... -Statler Waldorf, Christian apologist
