Regarding all the comments on my sources I listed. It was clear I was pointing out that even secular scholars believe that Jesus existed to short circuit the inevitable nonsense that Jesus was entirely imaginary. As you most certainly have heard before: most scholars agree that the baptism and Crucifixion really happened.
Reference: Jesus Remembered by James D. G. Dunn 2003 ISBN 0-8028-3931-2 page 339 states of baptism and crucifixion that these "two facts in the life of Jesus command almost universal assent".
Hearsay evidence is still evidence. It is not allowed in court because it cannot be cross examined. The hearsay evidence could be 100% reliable or it could be 0% reliable. There is no one alive that could give us a percentage. What we do know if that those first century Christians believed the central tenets. They had better reasons and evidence than we do today. Is it irrational to believe the same as people who lived during the time of Christ? Oh wait!!! I know. We have learned recently that dead people don't come back to life and the first century Christians were not privy to this information. Now it all makes sense!
Regarding Bart Ehrmans selected quotes:
• "Paul, by the way, never says that Jesus declared himself to be divine.”
Paul wrote in Philippians 2:5. Let this mind be in you which was also in Christ Jesus, who, being in the form of God, did not consider it robbery to be equal with God, but made Himself of no reputation, taking the form of a servant, and coming in the likeness of men. And being found in appearance as a man, He humbled Himself and became obedient to the point of death, even the death of the cross
Need some more:
“Paul, a servant of Christ Jesus, called to be an apostle and set apart for the gospel of God— the gospel he promised beforehand through his prophets in the Holy Scriptures regarding his Son, who as to his human nature was a descendant of David, and who through the Spirit of holiness was declared with power to be the Son of God by his resurrection from the dead: Jesus Christ our Lord.” Romans 1:1-4
“God, whom I serve with my whole heart in preaching the gospel of his Son, is my witness how constantly I remember you in my prayers at all times; and I pray that now at last by God's will the way may be opened for me to come to you.” Romans 1:9-10
“But when God, who set me apart from birth and called me by his grace, was pleased to reveal his Son in me so that I might preach him among the Gentiles, I did not consult any man,” Galatians 1:15-16
“I want you to know, brothers, that the gospel I preached is not something that man made up. I did not receive it from any man, nor was I taught it; rather, I received it by revelation from Jesus Christ.” Galatians 1:11-12
• “the idea that Jesus rose on the 'third day' was originally a theological construct, not a historical piece of information.”
I Corithians 15: 1Now, brothers and sisters, I want to remind you of the gospel I preached to you, which you received and on which you have taken your stand. 2 By this gospel you are saved, if you hold firmly to the word I preached to you. Otherwise, you have believed in vain. 3 For what I received I passed on to you as of first importance: that Christ died for our sins according to the Scriptures, 4 that he was buried, that he was raised on the third day according to the Scriptures, 5 and that he appeared to Cephas, and then to the Twelve. 6 After that, he appeared to more than five hundred of the brothers and sisters at the same time, most of whom are still living, though some have fallen asleep. 7 Then he appeared to James, then to all the apostles, 8 and last of all he appeared to me also, as to one abnormally born.
• “But one thing they all (i.e., E. P. Sanders, Geza Vermes, Dale Allison, Paula Fredriksen, and many others) agree on: Jesus did not spend his ministry declaring himself to be divine.”
So Paul and the gospel writers made that part up. That's nonsense because absolutely none of Christianity make sense if Jesus was not God. Every one of the gospels make the claim. Oh, I know, it was part of the conspiracy.
Reference: Jesus Remembered by James D. G. Dunn 2003 ISBN 0-8028-3931-2 page 339 states of baptism and crucifixion that these "two facts in the life of Jesus command almost universal assent".
Hearsay evidence is still evidence. It is not allowed in court because it cannot be cross examined. The hearsay evidence could be 100% reliable or it could be 0% reliable. There is no one alive that could give us a percentage. What we do know if that those first century Christians believed the central tenets. They had better reasons and evidence than we do today. Is it irrational to believe the same as people who lived during the time of Christ? Oh wait!!! I know. We have learned recently that dead people don't come back to life and the first century Christians were not privy to this information. Now it all makes sense!
Regarding Bart Ehrmans selected quotes:
• "Paul, by the way, never says that Jesus declared himself to be divine.”
Paul wrote in Philippians 2:5. Let this mind be in you which was also in Christ Jesus, who, being in the form of God, did not consider it robbery to be equal with God, but made Himself of no reputation, taking the form of a servant, and coming in the likeness of men. And being found in appearance as a man, He humbled Himself and became obedient to the point of death, even the death of the cross
Need some more:
“Paul, a servant of Christ Jesus, called to be an apostle and set apart for the gospel of God— the gospel he promised beforehand through his prophets in the Holy Scriptures regarding his Son, who as to his human nature was a descendant of David, and who through the Spirit of holiness was declared with power to be the Son of God by his resurrection from the dead: Jesus Christ our Lord.” Romans 1:1-4
“God, whom I serve with my whole heart in preaching the gospel of his Son, is my witness how constantly I remember you in my prayers at all times; and I pray that now at last by God's will the way may be opened for me to come to you.” Romans 1:9-10
“But when God, who set me apart from birth and called me by his grace, was pleased to reveal his Son in me so that I might preach him among the Gentiles, I did not consult any man,” Galatians 1:15-16
“I want you to know, brothers, that the gospel I preached is not something that man made up. I did not receive it from any man, nor was I taught it; rather, I received it by revelation from Jesus Christ.” Galatians 1:11-12
• “the idea that Jesus rose on the 'third day' was originally a theological construct, not a historical piece of information.”
I Corithians 15: 1Now, brothers and sisters, I want to remind you of the gospel I preached to you, which you received and on which you have taken your stand. 2 By this gospel you are saved, if you hold firmly to the word I preached to you. Otherwise, you have believed in vain. 3 For what I received I passed on to you as of first importance: that Christ died for our sins according to the Scriptures, 4 that he was buried, that he was raised on the third day according to the Scriptures, 5 and that he appeared to Cephas, and then to the Twelve. 6 After that, he appeared to more than five hundred of the brothers and sisters at the same time, most of whom are still living, though some have fallen asleep. 7 Then he appeared to James, then to all the apostles, 8 and last of all he appeared to me also, as to one abnormally born.
• “But one thing they all (i.e., E. P. Sanders, Geza Vermes, Dale Allison, Paula Fredriksen, and many others) agree on: Jesus did not spend his ministry declaring himself to be divine.”
So Paul and the gospel writers made that part up. That's nonsense because absolutely none of Christianity make sense if Jesus was not God. Every one of the gospels make the claim. Oh, I know, it was part of the conspiracy.
