(February 19, 2015 at 1:25 pm)orangebox21 Wrote: Within the framework of a moral system that considers 'gaming the system' a moral act, people gaming the system would be moral. A premise you disagree with, but it would not 'fail to separate the moral from the immoral people.' It would simply separate them in a manner you disagree with.
It's not a matter of personal opinion, it's a matter of the system failing utterly at its stated purpose. The moral system has X set of actions that it considers good, and Y set of actions that it considers bad, and it offers incentives for the good actions, and disincentives for the bad ones. That's literally the entire point of the system, but you're telling me that contained within set X is a premise that allows you to commit as many actions contained within set Y as you like, while avoiding the disincentives and still gaining the incentives. It compromises the whole system. No, more than that, it renders the system moot, as now there's no point in avoiding sin at all, despite being told to avoid sin. The notion of immoral actions, within that system, has been entirely robbed of significance, and hence, so too has the notion of moral actions. You no longer need to do either.
Quote:Outside of the framework of a moral system that considers 'gaming the system' a moral act one can argue that gaming the system is immoral.
But this was never an issue of morality, it's an issue of the efficacy of the system itself. The argument is that, moral or immoral, the presence of the ability to game the system renders the system itself a failure.
Quote:There hasn't been proper correlation between proving that: gaming the system is an immoral act, Christian morality is a system that views gaming the system as a moral act, and [therefore] Christianity is a poor moral system.
Look above. Look to my last post. All you did was push the conversation to one of morality, rather than efficacy, which you now seem to acknowledge was the original point of the discussion. But a non-sequitur isn't a rebuttal.
Quote:I don't think you understand what repentance means. Repentance is turning from your sins. A person turning from their sins cannot be gaming the system [continuing to sin with the knowledge you have been forgiven].
Why not? Are you saying a person cannot rationally allow himself to willingly sin while turning from those sins, despite the bible asserting numerous times that we're all sinners by default, that it's not something we can escape? Pragmatically, the reasonable option seems to be to accept the inherent sinfulness the bible foists upon us all- the bible can't be wrong on that point, after all- and to game the system as a matter of course; you can't have a book that says that sin is this trap that there's no way out of, and then expect people to pretend otherwise.
Besides, a person gaming the system could simply characterize their gaming of that system as a lapse, a sin in itself and genuinely repent for that... while still having gaming the system as a consistent sin they need to repent for. The act of gaming the system does not necessarily entail that repentance would be insincere, and I don't understand why you'd assert otherwise.
"YOU take the hard look in the mirror. You are everything that is wrong with this world. The only thing important to you, is you." - ronedee
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