Religiosity, Spirituality and the Moral

[Surgenator]

Why can't there by cyclical or evolving perspective? So do you believe you existed before you were born? If not, why would ceasing to exist after you die be so senseless?

I don't know what cyclical and evolving have to do with whether or not the is something before or after this life.

Reincarnation could be considered cyclical. Instead of ceasing to exist, you are reborn into a new body without the memories of your past life.

Evolving would be similar to cyclical but you can be reincarnated into higher or lower lifeforms. And possibly to non-existence.

Yes, I believe I existed as a spirit child of God before I was born into mortality to gain a physical body. Ceasing to exist would be senseless were it not for the fact that I believe what the prophets of God have said concerning post mortal existence.

Now you have cheapen life.

Sure, there is an objective truth and reality. However, this doesn't address how you know god's nature objectively. For the sake of the argument, lets say God is really the trickster god Loki. You cannot trust Loki to tell the prophets the truth. No matter how sincere and honest the prophets might be, they cannot be trusted to state the objective truth when their source told them a lie. So how would you know if the god you're worshiping is NOT a trickster god?

I quite understand your feeling in this. What I will suggest, I am absolutely sure will not make sense to you, but I believe what the prophets say because the spirit of it feels right. There is no other way to explain it. It is indeed faith in the words of God through His prophets. I'm sure you will consider this nonsense, but there it is.

Your right, I wouldn't understand it. I cannot understand how an internal feeling is objective. I cannot understand how an objective internal feeling can cause so many conflicting religions.

There is an objective identifiable basis for this rule: cause and effect. Are you going to argue that a cause leads to a subjective effect? Which frankly would sound ridiculous.

Ridiculous indeed. It is not subjective because of subjective effect. You are right, that is just plain silly. It is subjective by definition, because the idea of cause and effect comes from only you (or the group you belong to which would then change the definition to 'relative') and not all people universally abide by your definition. There are other cultures (for example Sharia Law) which have a different set of standards.

Cause and effect does NOT come from me. It is the observable fact of reality. It is not subject to my beliefs just like gravity is not subject to my belief of it.

So instead of the parent punching the child, he should of punched a baby? The requirement that a purely innocent being take someone else's punishment makes it worse not better. If the person taking the someone else's punishment wasn't innocent, then at least you would be able to make a case that the punishment he's receiving now is what he deserved for his earlier crimes.

Justice must be paid. Christ voluntarily offered Himself to pay that debt out of love for us. If this is something you cannot accept, then there is little more I can say.

Volunteering, innocence has nothing to do with it. You are responsible for the affects you caused, you bear its consequences. No one else.

So I can go to a place of peace and happiness and be away from god. And in this peace and happiness place, I can commit all kinds of atrocities without being punished because I'm away from God. God can't judge what he doesn't know. If he does know what I'm doing, then I'm not away from him. I found flaw in your worldview.

Absolutely not. The lower kingdoms are governed by the higher kingdoms. The law still is in force and a punishment is affixed for breaking it. Unlike here in mortality where judgment is postponed until the test is over; punishment there will be immediate. You are not allowed to be in God's presence, but He still rules.

So I'm not away from god since god's representative is still there. Plus, this place would not be a happy place since the happiness is forced from fear of punishment.

Good job on cheapening the punishment known as death. I only need to separate my spirit from my body and all kinds of immoral acts are paid for. Let me go and kill my neighbor for making some noise but don't worry. I'm only separating his spirit from his body, his essence is fine.

You would only be happy if the punishment were permanent... and forever? The debt was paid by Christ's death. The is no law against resurrection. And because Christ was resurrected, so shall we all be just prior to judgment day in order to stand before God to be judged. You are in error if you think you could get away with murder, Yes your neighbor's spirit will still exist and will be resurrected, but he will petition God for retribution against you.

It doesn't matter what I prefer. It still cheapens death. For example, if I did something immoral, then god can just separated my spirit from my body and put it in a new body. Price paid independent of the degree of my immoral action.

LOL. The law is offended!? Does the law have feelings? Is it alive? Thats just absurd.

Yes, as in you committed an offense against the law; the same as if you committed an offense against and earthly law.

Breaking the human laws is an offense to the citizens that made that law. It is not an offense to the law, just like I cannot offend the 2nd law of thermodynamics. Laws don't have feelings, people do.

The human laws are written down and accessible to anyone who wishes to read them. The Judge has to rule by what the written law states. Where is the objective moral law written down? Before you give the "in your heart" or "in his word" answer, ask yourself who wrote the "law" there. For the law to be truly objective, the judge can show you what the law states but not tell you.

This is a mystery to me. I don't have an answer even for myself. I believe the law has existed co-eternally with God without beginning. I believe it is written, but these things I hold in suspense until such time as the truth of it is revealed.

Thank you for your honesty.