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What were Jesus and early Christians like?
#96
RE: What were Jesus and early Christians like?
(March 2, 2015 at 2:48 am)Godschild Wrote: Your deception might fool the foolish ones here, but not the Christians. Matthew, Mark, Luke all say Jesus went into the desert after His baptism. Johns Gospel never mentions the 40 days in the desert. John's gospel gives no time line for the baptism, it does say John gave a testimony of Jesus and how he knew who Jesus was, but as I said there is no time line on when he baptized Jesus. Since the 40 days were not mentioned in John's gospel and the baptism has no true time line, speculation is all you have and nothing more.

Sorry I missed this reply earlier.

So what are you saying? There were two baptisms? One with John's timeline and the other with the Synoptic timeline?

John is pretty abundantly clear on the order of events:
The Gospel of John Wrote:John 1:22 Then said they unto him, Who art thou? that we may give an answer to them that sent us. What sayest thou of thyself?
1:23 He said,I am the voice of one crying in the wilderness, Make straight the way of the Lord, as said the prophet Esaias
...
1:27 He it is, who coming after me is preferred before me, whose shoe's latchet I am not worthy to unloose.
1:28 These things were done in Bethabara beyond Jordan, where John was baptizing.
1:29 The next day John seeth Jesus coming unto him, and saith, Behold the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of the world.
1:30 This is he of whom I said, After me cometh a man which is preferred before me: for he was before me.
1:31 And I knew him not: but that he should be made manifest to Israel, therefore am I come baptizing with water.
1:32 And John bare record, saying, I saw the Spirit descending from heaven like a dove, and it abode upon him.
1:33 And I knew him not: but he that sent me to baptize with water, the same said unto me, Upon whom thou shalt see the Spirit descending, and remaining on him, the same is he which baptizeth with the Holy Ghost.
1:34 And I saw, and bare record that this is the Son of God.

Ok, so what have we learned so far? John the Baptist made it clear he was a forerunner of someone coming after him, who he hadn't yet met (1:31). He tells everyone he's coming and he won't be worthy to put his shoes on (1:27). The next day (1:29) Jesus shows up, John says, "here he is, the man we've all been waiting for whom I hadn't yet met". And then the whole deal with the dove from Heaven.

Where have we heard about the dove from Heaven before?

The Gospel of Mark Wrote:Mark 1:10 And straightway coming up out of the water, he saw the heavens opened, and the Spirit like a dove descending upon him:

Oh, that's right. The dove from Heaven is the point where Heaven announced "this is my son" and all that at the end of the baptism.

Although John glosses over the whole baptism, he does mention the dove. The Synoptics make it clear that the dove thing punctuates the baptism. So yes, we have a contradiction.

Now I'm sure you're going to say there were two dove-spirit-infusions just like there's the "two temple cleansings" apology to explain why Jesus starts his ministry with the temple cleansing in John but he ends his ministry with the temple cleansing according to the Synoptics. Ask, "what do you base that on?" and the apologist shrugs and says "it coulda happened".

This is called the ad hoc hypothesis fallacy. Keep dismissing all the pieces of contrary evidence with "maybe... maybe... maybe..." until you've dismissed them all. I can "prove" invisible faeries exist in your garden or anything else if you let me use that tool.

I have Occam's Razor. It's exactly what it looks like: different authors writing a different story.
Atheist Forums Hall of Shame:
"The trinity can be equated to having your cake and eating it too."
...      -Lucent, trying to defend the Trinity concept
"(Yahweh's) actions are good because (Yahweh) is the ultimate standard of goodness. That’s not begging the question"
...       -Statler Waldorf, Christian apologist
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Messages In This Thread
RE: What were Jesus and early Christians like? - by abaris - February 27, 2015 at 8:26 pm
RE: What were Jesus and early Christians like? - by vorlon13 - February 27, 2015 at 11:48 pm
RE: What were Jesus and early Christians like? - by Mudhammam - February 27, 2015 at 11:58 pm
RE: What were Jesus and early Christians like? - by vorlon13 - February 28, 2015 at 12:04 am
RE: What were Jesus and early Christians like? - by Mudhammam - February 28, 2015 at 12:08 am
RE: What were Jesus and early Christians like? - by vorlon13 - February 28, 2015 at 12:13 am
RE: What were Jesus and early Christians like? - by vorlon13 - February 28, 2015 at 12:44 pm
RE: What were Jesus and early Christians like? - by Godschild - February 28, 2015 at 5:20 pm
RE: What were Jesus and early Christians like? - by abaris - February 28, 2015 at 5:22 pm
RE: What were Jesus and early Christians like? - by DeistPaladin - March 2, 2015 at 2:50 pm
RE: What were Jesus and early Christians like? - by Drich - March 3, 2015 at 10:03 am
RE: What were Jesus and early Christians like? - by Drich - March 4, 2015 at 10:37 am
RE: What were Jesus and early Christians like? - by Drich - March 4, 2015 at 12:40 pm
RE: What were Jesus and early Christians like? - by Nope - March 1, 2015 at 11:12 am
RE: What were Jesus and early Christians like? - by Drich - March 1, 2015 at 12:02 pm
RE: What were Jesus and early Christians like? - by Drich - March 1, 2015 at 10:05 pm
RE: What were Jesus and early Christians like? - by Drich - March 1, 2015 at 10:40 pm
RE: What were Jesus and early Christians like? - by Drich - March 2, 2015 at 10:28 am
RE: What were Jesus and early Christians like? - by Drich - March 4, 2015 at 12:37 pm
RE: What were Jesus and early Christians like? - by Drich - March 6, 2015 at 12:55 am
RE: What were Jesus and early Christians like? - by Cato - March 5, 2015 at 12:28 am
RE: What were Jesus and early Christians like? - by Drich - March 4, 2015 at 12:41 pm
RE: What were Jesus and early Christians like? - by Drich - March 4, 2015 at 12:49 pm
What were Jesus and early Christians like? - by KUSA - March 4, 2015 at 5:29 pm
RE: What were Jesus and early Christians like? - by Pizza - March 13, 2015 at 8:26 pm
RE: What were Jesus and early Christians like? - by Pizza - March 13, 2015 at 7:10 pm
RE: What were Jesus and early Christians like? - by Pizza - March 13, 2015 at 8:51 pm
RE: What were Jesus and early Christians like? - by Pizza - March 13, 2015 at 8:45 pm
RE: What were Jesus and early Christians like? - by Pizza - March 13, 2015 at 8:54 pm
RE: What were Jesus and early Christians like? - by Pizza - March 13, 2015 at 9:56 pm
RE: What were Jesus and early Christians like? - by Pizza - March 13, 2015 at 10:30 pm
RE: What were Jesus and early Christians like? - by Pizza - March 14, 2015 at 12:52 am
RE: What were Jesus and early Christians like? - by Pizza - March 15, 2015 at 2:32 am
RE: What were Jesus and early Christians like? - by Pizza - March 15, 2015 at 10:32 pm

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