What were Jesus and early Christians like?

[Godscreated]

Your deception might fool the foolish ones here, but not the Christians. Matthew, Mark, Luke all say Jesus went into the desert after His baptism. Johns Gospel never mentions the 40 days in the desert. John's gospel gives no time line for the baptism, it does say John gave a testimony of Jesus and how he knew who Jesus was, but as I said there is no time line on when he baptized Jesus. Since the 40 days were not mentioned in John's gospel and the baptism has no true time line, speculation is all you have and nothing more.

Sorry I missed this reply earlier.

So what are you saying? There were two baptisms? One with John's timeline and the other with the Synoptic timeline?

John is pretty abundantly clear on the order of events:

John 1:22 Then said they unto him, Who art thou? that we may give an answer to them that sent us. What sayest thou of thyself?
1:23 He said,I am the voice of one crying in the wilderness, Make straight the way of the Lord, as said the prophet Esaias
...
1:27 He it is, who coming after me is preferred before me, whose shoe's latchet I am not worthy to unloose.
1:28 These things were done in Bethabara beyond Jordan, where John was baptizing.
1:29 The next day John seeth Jesus coming unto him, and saith, Behold the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of the world.
1:30 This is he of whom I said, After me cometh a man which is preferred before me: for he was before me.
1:31 And I knew him not: but that he should be made manifest to Israel, therefore am I come baptizing with water.
1:32 And John bare record, saying, I saw the Spirit descending from heaven like a dove, and it abode upon him.
1:33 And I knew him not: but he that sent me to baptize with water, the same said unto me, Upon whom thou shalt see the Spirit descending, and remaining on him, the same is he which baptizeth with the Holy Ghost.
1:34 And I saw, and bare record that this is the Son of God.

Ok, so what have we learned so far? John the Baptist made it clear he was a forerunner of someone coming after him, who he hadn't yet met (1:31). He tells everyone he's coming and he won't be worthy to put his shoes on (1:27). The next day (1:29) Jesus shows up, John says, "here he is, the man we've all been waiting for whom I hadn't yet met". And then the whole deal with the dove from Heaven.

Where have we heard about the dove from Heaven before?

Wait a minute why are you jumping around, from v. 31 and then go back to verse 27 and then quote v. 29 as if it took place after v. 31.
Verse 27 states John knew he was unworthy to unlatch the sandals of the Messiah and he knew he was the one chosen to be Christ's forerunner.
Verse 28 states John at this time was answering the questions put to him.
Verse 29 states that the next day John saw the Messiah and told them he did.
The next verses are told by John as the events that had happened at an earlier meeting. That's why John was able to recognize Jesus in v. 29.

Mark 1:10 And straightway coming up out of the water, he saw the heavens opened, and the Spirit like a dove descending upon him:

Oh, that's right. The dove from Heaven is the point where Heaven announced "this is my son" and all that at the end of the baptism.

Although John glosses over the whole baptism, he does mention the dove. The Synoptics make it clear that the dove thing punctuates the baptism. So yes, we have a contradiction.

Mark is written with a specific time line about what happened at the baptism of Jesus. Matthew and Luke agree with this time line, John's gospel is not about a specific time line and doesn't even mention the 40 days in the desert. Again I'll say to keep you in mind of what happened in John's gospel, John is answering questions put to him and he saw Jesus coming and recognized Him and stated he did. Then he goes on telling what happened at an earlier time, what happened at an earlier time is the reason John could say who Jesus was and why he was able to recognize Him in v. 29. There is no contradiction, because John's gospel gives no specific time line, he is telling the story of how he could know Jesus from what had happened at an earlier date.

Now I'm sure you're going to say there were two dove-spirit-infusions just like there's the "two temple cleansings" apology to explain why Jesus starts his ministry with the temple cleansing in John but he ends his ministry with the temple cleansing according to the Synoptics. Ask, "what do you base that on?" and the apologist shrugs and says "it coulda happened".

There was one baptism and one temple cleansing, John's gospel is not held to a specific time line or an orderly one.

This is called the ad hoc hypothesis fallacy. Keep dismissing all the pieces of contrary evidence with "maybe... maybe... maybe..." until you've dismissed them all. I can "prove" invisible faeries exist in your garden or anything else if you let me use that tool.

I have Occam's Razor. It's exactly what it looks like: different authors writing a different story.

You couldn't prove anything to me, I do not buy crap from anyone, I've dismissed nothing and it's rude that you presumed I would. I explained to you how the gospel's account for what seems like a controversy isn't one, unless someone does like you and twist the verses around in John's gospel to seem like they are say something they do not. You are being dishonest with your view of John's gospel and you know you are. Take Occ's razor and shave the fuzz from your brain.

GC

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The Christian documents we have give us the most history of that area during that time.

They give us stories using some real historical figures like Pilate. But they don't live up to reality when it comes to Roman trials or the role of the jewish priesthood, which was a body appointed by the Roman authorities and very much dependent on them. Most of all they don't give us a realistic picture of how a Roman governor would have reacted faced when faced with a man claiming to be the king of the jews. That's high treason and Pilate certainly wouldn't have offered that man a possible amnesty if the people so wished.

Drich has already taken care of this little bit of your propaganda.

GC