RE: If I were an Atheist
March 12, 2015 at 7:53 pm
(This post was last modified: March 12, 2015 at 8:04 pm by Drew_2013.)
Snakeoil
I'm very familiar with the distinction. What I'm arguing in this thread is the distinction does more harm than good.
First it redefines atheism in such a way you might as well drop the A. Theism means God the A in atheism mean not or without God. Weak atheists share more in common with a theist than an atheist who actually claims not or without God. A theist doesn't deny God exists either does the weak atheist! There is no point in debating the existence of God between a weak atheist and a theist since the weak atheist doesn't deny (even as a mere opinion) that God exists. Whats to argue? Lastly if the atheists who subscribe to the A in atheist can't convince weak atheists God doesn't exist then there case must be pathetic.
rasetsu
No what I am saying is those who have beefs with particular alleged holy writs, interpretations of such writs or doctrines of churches and so forth need to take it up with theologians not me. There is no theology of theism, church of theism or holy writs attributed to theism. Its the belief we owe our existence to a Creator.
If I bother to show two or more sources that use the word creator to define theism are you going to say okay I stand corrected or are you going to insist you're correct as you customarily do?
Yes it does mean a lot more to me. It means that humans are special and provides a philosophical basis for thinking so. It provides a basis of equality among people and a reason to provide sanctions against those who would enslave or abuse people. It is also the basis in the USA for the belief human beings are endowed by their Creator with unalienable rights among these is the belief that all humans are created equal and a litany of other rights that are granted not by the government but by a Creator. That the government is in power to protect those rights.
Downbeat
By the same token, if it is definitely possible that God exists what beef can you have with theists who simply do believe what you say is a definite possibility?
Its your fellow atheists who are in a fog...take it up with them.
Quote:You do seem to fail to grasp the difference between not believing in something and believing it doesn't exist. It is a fine distinction, but most people can figure it out. I'll lay it out for you:
Believing something does not exist is a type of positive claim, even though you're claiming to believe a negative. Not believing in something is simply the refusal to accept a claim at face value.
I'm very familiar with the distinction. What I'm arguing in this thread is the distinction does more harm than good.
First it redefines atheism in such a way you might as well drop the A. Theism means God the A in atheism mean not or without God. Weak atheists share more in common with a theist than an atheist who actually claims not or without God. A theist doesn't deny God exists either does the weak atheist! There is no point in debating the existence of God between a weak atheist and a theist since the weak atheist doesn't deny (even as a mere opinion) that God exists. Whats to argue? Lastly if the atheists who subscribe to the A in atheist can't convince weak atheists God doesn't exist then there case must be pathetic.
rasetsu
No what I am saying is those who have beefs with particular alleged holy writs, interpretations of such writs or doctrines of churches and so forth need to take it up with theologians not me. There is no theology of theism, church of theism or holy writs attributed to theism. Its the belief we owe our existence to a Creator.
Quote:No, theism is simply the belief that one or more gods exist. This 'creator' business is a part of your specific theology. And I'm willing to bet dollars to donuts that your beliefs are a whole lot more specific than that.
If I bother to show two or more sources that use the word creator to define theism are you going to say okay I stand corrected or are you going to insist you're correct as you customarily do?
Yes it does mean a lot more to me. It means that humans are special and provides a philosophical basis for thinking so. It provides a basis of equality among people and a reason to provide sanctions against those who would enslave or abuse people. It is also the basis in the USA for the belief human beings are endowed by their Creator with unalienable rights among these is the belief that all humans are created equal and a litany of other rights that are granted not by the government but by a Creator. That the government is in power to protect those rights.
Downbeat
Quote:I don't believe in extra terrestrial intelligence but I don't believe extra terrestrial intelligence does not exist.
There is simply not enough evidence to support the positive claim but it is definitely possible.
See how that works.
By the same token, if it is definitely possible that God exists what beef can you have with theists who simply do believe what you say is a definite possibility?
(March 12, 2015 at 7:12 pm)Cato Wrote:(March 12, 2015 at 6:34 pm)Drew_2013 Wrote: Lets see how that works. I don't believe in Santa Claus but I don't believe Santa doesn't exist. I don't believe in fairies but I don't believe fairies don't exist because that's different. This is classic atheist logic.
You seem to be deluded about what an atheist is. Your fucking god doesn't exist; never has, never will. Get it? No fucking god = atheist. There's not even the slightest possibility that the character described by the Bible or the Quran is real. No chance. None. Zilch. Nil. No fucking god. Simple enough for you?
Its your fellow atheists who are in a fog...take it up with them.
