If I were an Atheist

[Drew_2013]

Mr. Agenda

Theism is the opinion that at least one god or God is really real. It's not a philosophy.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Philosophical_theism

Philosophical theism is the belief that deities exist (or must exist) independent of the teaching or revelation of any particular religion.[1] It represents belief in a personal God entirely without doctrine. Some philosophical theists are persuaded of a god's existence by philosophical arguments, while others consider themselves to have a religious faith that need not be, or could not be, supported by rational argument.

No such explanation [ alternate non-fairy tale explanation] is required. If we have no explanation at all, it does not add a single nano-gram of weight to the odds that your position is correct. And mere theism explains nothing. It's not the kind of thing that is an explanation for anything, it's a binary positon on the issue of whether or not at least one god or God is real.

The problem is we all know what the alternative explanation is. If the universe and humans weren't purposely caused to come into existence intentionally by a creator designer, then we owe our existence to mindless mechanistic forces that unintentionally caused the universe with the characteristics to cause stars, planets, solar systems and life to exist. I can appreciate why most atheists don't care to defend or advance that alternate explanation and many atheists will attempt to argue its a false dichotomy. Its the former explanation that explains nothing. There is no rhyme or reason why mindless mechanistic things would happen to be as they are it just is.

Then there is the person who throws up their hands and decides a debate with someone who doesn't assert vigrously that there is no God is impossible.

If the debate is Theism and I hold the affirmative position it would be lame to debate with someone who doesn't deny God exists just lacks that belief. I don't deny God exists either.

Respecting the other's view is precisely where you're failing.

You only have a non-position.

If you want a formal debate, there's a place for that. The mods can set it up, and all you need is a volunteer to take 'the other side'. The holdup seems to be not only that you want the 'other side' to be 'God definitely does not exist' but that your own side isn't 'God definitely does exist'.

Not at all either side would be defending an opinion. If the debate were theism for or against the proposition I'd like the opposing view to opine theism is mistaken. Such a debate in this forum wouldn't be very interesting. Theists would come away theists, atheists atheists.

It depends on how they're defined. If everything they do is undetectable by science and they never leave verifiable evidence, then I merely lack belief in their existence. That doesn't mean I wouldn't be surprised if I found out either or both were real, as I regard them as more improbable than our sun going nova tomorrow (and our sun isn't the kind of star that ever goes nova).

If you regarding something as improbable as our star going nova why wouldn't you state at least as an opinion it doesn't exist? Why would you still give it some credibility by stating you lack belief? What does it take for you to stand up and say I don't believe such and such exists? After all its still an opinion when you state it a belief.

We don't believe God exists, but don't maintain that God necessarily does not exist.

That's inherent to any opinion or belief is the concession you might be mistaken. Wouldn't you think I was being disingenuous if I came to this board and just said I lack belief in God's non-existence? I'm not saying God does exist mind you...I just lack belief in God's non-existence.

Your issue is both a made-up problem (there is no sound reason to believe the universe comes from a personal creator in the first place).

I have in the past provided several lines of evidence (facts) that provide a sound reason to believe our existence is the result of a Creator but apparently you feel alternative explanations are just as unsound.

Jesus_wept

If you want people to believe your claims then you need to provide evidence, you can't just sit there and pretend your arguments are valid because I cant prove you wrong.

That's not true. I made a case citing 5 lines of evidence I argued favor the existence of a Creator. I can't prove I'm right anymore than you can prove I'm wrong. Theism is a belief not a fact.

Snake,

He's going beyond that to make up his own definition that theism means gawd

I don't know what gawd means...is it really a word?

Rhythm

Neither atheism nor atheists exist to satisfy your predilections. So you're shit out of luck on just about every count raised. They don't have to claim what you want them to, they don't have to stop reminding you how silly you are for believing in either god or santa, and they don't have to be nice about it. Your opinions on what atheists should claim- or what atheism should be, are a complete non-issue.

And 20 years from now they will still be an insignificant minority.