RE: Are some people truly better off believing?
May 21, 2015 at 12:48 am
(This post was last modified: May 21, 2015 at 1:23 am by Razzle.)
(May 20, 2015 at 7:32 pm)whateverist Wrote:(May 20, 2015 at 4:40 pm)Razzle Wrote: I think the value of anything, including truth, is determined by its effect on well-being. That's what 'value' is - a measurement of how something makes us feel. Usually, knowing the truth about things helps us effectively manipulate the world to promote positive emotional states and reduce negative ones, but occasionally, a particular person believing something false will do that instead.
That can't be right. The value to you might be what best enhances your well-being. But the desire for the truth is also about wanting to live in the real world, to accept life on its own terms. Not all of us would choose to take the pill which allows us to stay asleep to the real world.
"Wanting" truth and "desire for" truth are just different ways of stating the fact that the idea of truth enhances your well-being when you think about it. I.e. thinking about it makes you feel better than thinking about the alternative. That's all it means when we say we "value" something higher than something else. Whether you would rather yourself or others know the harsh truth or a comforting lie comes down to how the feelings you get from each of those concepts measure up.
(May 20, 2015 at 5:02 pm)FatAndFaithless Wrote:
(May 20, 2015 at 4:59 pm)Razzle Wrote: There are still certain things I want to do very much, but can''t and might never be able to again, like activism, volunteering for the homeless, watching the news or reading a newspaper, or even following freely the kind of Twitter accounts I'd like to follow.
Why can't you do those things?
This:
Razzle Wrote:Avoidance of potential OCD triggers
FatandFaithless Wrote:I've never said that people can't get some sort of personal happiness from religion. I've only stated that those ideas aren't in any way substantiated. And I for one would rather focus on real, effective ways of helping you (and the bigger thing, the many more people in the future that might experience something similar) instead of putting a religious finger in the dyke.
I completely agree. I'm just acknowledging as fact that sometimes a finger in the dyke is all someone has and we can't provide effective alternatives. Those incarcerated long-term without access to education, hobbies, music or even physical safety and medical care, for example. Why take away their gods while you have nothing else to offer?
"Faith is a state of openness or trust. To have faith is like when you trust yourself to the water. You don't grab hold of the water when you swim, because if you do you will become stiff and tight in the water, and sink. You have to relax, and the attitude of faith is the very opposite of clinging, and holding on. In other words, a person who is fanatic in matters of religion, and clings to certain ideas about the nature of God and the universe becomes a person who has no faith at all. Instead they are holding tight. But the attitude of faith is to let go, and become open to truth, whatever it might turn out to be."
Alan Watts
Alan Watts
