Should there be Atheist groups?

[josef rosenkranz]

Exactly which bit of "I don't believe it until I see some evidence" did you not understand?

To my opinion one can not be a front stage propagator of the ideas of atheism as you are and in the same time to believe in something very close to Destiny.

Again, I have to state:

Which bit of "I don't believe it until I see some evidence" did you not understand?

You keep saying that I have some kind of belief in determinism and therefore that means I cannot possibly be an atheist. Whilst I think you can probably have some kind of belief in determinism and still be an atheist, I am not one who falls into that group. I am neither a "determinist" nor an "undeterminist". The best description of me would be an "apa-determinist" (morphing the words apathetic and determinist). I don't have any opinion on either and I really don't care about them. I haven't read into the subject at all, but it is common knowledge that certain things can be predicted. Science has so far failed to unite newtonian physics with quantum mechanics, so using it to argue against determinism seems a bit off. I would love to hear your opinion on the wikipedia article about determinism which states (in relation to quantum mechanics):

So quantum mechanics is deterministic, provided that one accepts the wave function itself as reality (rather than as probability of classical coordinates). Since we have no practical way of knowing the exact magnitudes, and especially the phases, in a full quantum mechanical description of the causes of an observable event, this turns out to be philosophically similar to the "hidden variable" doctrine.

Whatever your answer, please stop referring to me as though I believe in determinism. I don't and it is rude to suggest otherwise. Ignorance in a subject does not mean I believe in it. I do not have any opinion on either, although that seems to be changing now I have been forced to read into the subject in order to respond to you

Hi Adrian
Please don't take personally anything I am writing.
I consider you as the most involved here in the matter of atheism, against the majority of participants of this forum who are merely,including my self, amateurs.
I am entitled to have my own opinions eve if thy seem odd to others,even if they are not in full concordance with the great R.Dawkins.
One of these opinion are related to the existence of an element of Nature which can not be denied ,which has a lot of secular names as:chance,random,chaos ,arbitrary,hidden doctrine,uncertainity principle,undeterminism,as well as religious names as fate or destiny.
The issue is misplaced in this thread so I intend to continue it in new threads because I consider it to be a cornerstone of atheism ,by no means to be ignored.