RE: Because the bible tells you so?
June 1, 2015 at 11:04 am
(This post was last modified: June 1, 2015 at 11:13 am by Angrboda.)
(June 1, 2015 at 10:26 am)Rhythm Wrote: You and I both use logic and reason, do we not? Is that based on our feelings?Yes, I believe it is. How do we determine when our logic in a particular instance is correct? What is the sign in our brains that we have correctly construed the logic? Is it a flash of light? Does the correct logic float in the air suspended upon an angelic cloud? What is the signal to our brain that the logic is correct?
a) 9 x 5 = 12
b) 8 + 3 = 11
c) 8 + 3 = 0
What happened in your mind when you contemplated b) that didn't happen with a) or c) ? (or vice versa)
Doesn't c) just 'feel wrong'? Or did you go look up the answer with google? (I get 'a feeling' that the '= 0' part is bad somehow.)
(June 1, 2015 at 10:26 am)Rhythm Wrote: We both see value in the scientific method...is that based on our feelings? Both of us can discern between what "feels true" and what "is true" as subjects - we recognize that there can be a difference...how would our feelings provide us with that recognition? How did either of us come to that if how we feel about something was all either of us had for determining truth?(bold mine)
You're misunderstanding what I'm saying. It isn't how we feel about something, it's that our brain produces different feelings when it concludes we are right about something than it produces when we are wrong about something. This (supposedly) is the meta-cognitive signal to our consciousness when we apprehend something correctly or incorrectly. Take another example. The stranger you meet knows your friend and gives you directions to his house. You pull up in front of the house, but it just looks wrong. You get a bad feeling about this. Now, how does 'logic' help you determine whether that bad feeling is correct, and this is the wrong house, prior to your going up to the house and knocking on the door? All you have is a 'feeling' about the rightness or wrongness of the house. That's the type of feeling I'm talking about. You go throughout your day making decisions based upon that little voice inside your head. It's not a literal voice, but a set of feelings which guide your choosing, that tell you that c) is wrong and b) is right.
Quote:Almost a century and a half later, the neurologist Antonio Damasio encountered a patient whom he called “a modern Phineas Gage.” The patient, whom he referred to as Elliot, was in his 30s and had undergone a radical personality change after an operation to remove a brain tumor on the surface of his frontal lobes. Elliot’s intelligence, his ability to move, and his ability to use language were not harmed by the operation. But, like Phineas Gage, Elliot seemed to have lost the ability to make decisions and plan for the future. Since the operation, the formerly stable Elliot had started several ill-conceived business ventures, gotten himself bankrupt, and had two divorces. “The tragedy of this otherwise healthy and intelligent man was that he was neither stupid nor ignorant, and yet he acted often as if he were,” said Damasio. “The machinery for his decision making was so flawed that he could no longer be an effective social being.”
Damasio struggled to figure out why Elliot had lost the ability to plan and make decisions. After all, his reason stayed entirely intact. Elliot scored above average on a battery of tests to determine the state of his rational mind—for long-term memory, short-term memory, perceptual ability, new learning, language, the ability to do arithmetic, the ability to make estimates based on incomplete knowledge, and logical competence. “After all these tests,” wrote Damasio, “Elliot emerged as a man with a normal intellect who was unable to decide properly, especially when the decision involved personal and social matters. Could it be that reasoning and decision making in the personal and social domain were different from reasoning and thinking in domains concerning objects, space, numbers, and words?”
It was at this point that Damasio gave Elliot a test that showed one additional post-operation change. Elliot had lost the ability to feel emotion. The case of Elliot led Damasio to the conclusion that the age-old dichotomy between emotions and reason is false. Emotions are crucial to reason, especially reasoning about social and personal issues. And while too much emotion can obstruct reason, according to Damasio, reduction in emotion can be an equally important source of irrational behavior. “The cold-bloodedness of Elliot’s reasoning,” writes Damasio, “prevented him from assigning different values to different options, and made his decision-making landscape hopelessly flat.” 9 In a complex world with so many factors affecting our decisions, the heart needs to play a prominent role.
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