(June 2, 2015 at 12:17 am)Rhythm Wrote:Quote:So in response to John 1:1... so in the beginning the word was WITH god. This seems to differentiate the two. Jesus is a god. One prophecy calls him a mighty god. Still not the almighty god. And the greek word you used for god at the end of John 1:1 had a different conjugation than the word used for the first mention of god. So you can just say that I am just molding it to what I want to believe, which I am sure you're thinking right now.Isaiah 9:6, not "one prophecy"..lets be specific...I think you might be reading to much Awake! and not enough scripture, after seeing that above.
-For there has been a child born to us, there has been a son given to us; and the princely rule will come to be upon his shoulder. And his name will be called Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God, Eternal Father, Prince of Peace.
I didn't use any word, btw, your NWT did....and I don't care that the translation of John 1:1 in the NWT is blatant horseshit...I really don't. I just wanted to make sure we had the same understanding of the verse..seems we do. I'd like to quote a very smart man..let me see if I can find it, ah yes...here it is:
Quote:The point that I am trying to get across is that I want you to argue with what I say. Not what you'll anticipate I'll say-think you might know that guy....
Moving on..... So, Jesus is a god. Jehovah is a god...how many gods do you believe in? After you count out how many gods you believe in (there are more gods in your sect..lol, can't forget about Old Scratch now can we?), care to reconcile that with Isaiah 44:6 (also in your NWT..of course)
-I am the first and I am the last, and besides me there is no God.
I don't see anything there about there not being any other almighty gods...do you? If god wanted the scriptures to say.."there are no other almighty gods beside me" - don't you think that scripture would say that? How might a bible based christian, rather than a polytheist like yourself, reconcile those verses? If jehovah is a god...and jesus is a god - but there is only one god............then jehovah and jesus must be [fill in the blank for me]...or else the scripture is [fill in the blank for me].
I'll give you another (and just as you claim that you can use the whole bible I can also point to scriptures throughout the entirety) once we get some resolution on this particular issue. Sounds fair, right? Explain to me how an admitted polytheist, a paganized christian such as yourself, can criticize a catholic on their relative status as True Christians™?
Why should I even respond to you when you are proving that there is ZERO genuineness in your questions? You are not looking for a discussion, you're looking for a brow beating. Are you actually looking to learn about what I believe and why? Or do you have foregone conclusions that you're just going to argue without reasoning on a single thing I am saying? You're no better than someone who believes the earth is 6000 years old because thats all they have ever known.
But, for one last time... Jehovah doesn't need to say that there are no almighty gods other than him. Almighty is generally singular. God does acknowledge other gods. (Exodus 20:3) He just makes the point that he is the only uncaused, first cause of everything in existence. He is the only god that is deserving exclusive devotion and worship. Satan is referred to as the god of this system. Paul said that some had made their belly their god. If you scripture mine and read one single scripture, sure, I can see your point. But when you look at the whole picture it says something else.
And you have to understand that if God does exist, he didn't write the scriptures for small minded people that would parse individual scriptures. He wrote it for those that love him and trust him and put truth over personal preference. Could you also quote me where I admit to being a polytheist?
I would also refer to the fact that the bible translators that translated John 1:1 used the definite article "the word was god" didn't take the same liberty in John 6:70 when they translated that scripture to say judas was "a devil" This is despite the fact that both scriptures use the indefinite article. Implying a quality rather than an identity.
Yes, Jesus was divine and god like. But he also said that he doesn't do anything of his own will except that of his father. From his own mouth he was inferior to Jehovah. From Pauls letters, he was the FIRSTBORN of creation. In prophecies like the one you mentioned, he is to be highly revered for us humans but is still not almighty like his father. IF, someone would like to read that one scripture and say that they base their beliefs off it and are therefore true christians then they have all the right to do so. However, in my case, looking at the bible on the whole, there is no way that it teaches god and jesus are equal and the same.
Should I conclude that Stephen Hawking is a theist based off this quote, "... if we do discover a complete theory, it should in time be understandable in broad principle by everyone, not just a few scientists. Then we shall all, philosophers, scientists, and just ordinary people, be able to take part in the discussion of the question of why it is that we and the universe exist. If we find the answer to that, it would be the ultimate triumph of human reason - for then we would know the mind of God.”
I guess if that is the only thing I have ever read about him then I could conclude that. But in the full context, it isn't what he meant.
