(June 11, 2015 at 11:33 am)whateverist Wrote: Here you go, COG. Found this for you written by a poster at a site called "Christianity".
http://christianity.stackexchange.com/qu...-and-faith
Quote:The understanding that I am most familiar with - a Protestant understanding, if it matters, is that "belief" is an intellectual belief, while "faith" is a matter of trust that leads to action.
This can be summed up in an illustration of Charles Blondin, a tightrope walker who asks a crowd if they believe that he can safely walk a wheelbarrow across Niagara Falls on a tightrope. Many in the crowd ask who believes that he can do this, and of course, most say that they do. Then he asks who is willing to get into the wheelbarrow. Only those whose "belief" reaches the point of faith will get in.
This fits pretty well with Watts' definitions. Any thoughts?
I can see and understand how people accept this as the way faith and belief works, however those examples are referring to the physical and I was under the impression this was a spiritual endeavor. Let's look at this physical example, you see a chair to set in it looks sound so do you believe it's safe to set in or do you have faith it's safe to set in? To have faith in it you wouldn't need to examine it, you would sit. Now to believe it's safe wouldn't it be necessary to at least examine the chair to some degree before sitting in it. Does not belief contain some solid evidence, while faith is trusting without seeing, this seems to me to be the the correct order for Christianity as I see it. Also the wheelbarrow deal left out one important fact, someone would be in the wheel barrow, that fact would make the trip across the tightrope much more difficult, anyone who has ever rolled a empty wheelbarrow vs. a full wheelbarrow can attest to this. So, I believe we need to keep things in a real perspective when trying to examine the spiritual through the physical, that's why I gave the old chair analogy it fits better with reality.
GC
God loves those who believe and those who do not and the same goes for me, you have no choice in this matter. That puts the matter of total free will to rest.