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The right to mis-define oneself
#6
RE: The right to mis-define oneself
(June 13, 2015 at 1:58 am)wallym Wrote: I'm definitely in the skeptical party that feels like we're being mandated to play pretend. Bruce Jenner, for example, wants us to call him a her named Caitlyn. Sure, whatever. I don't give a shit. But us all pretending he's a woman doesn't make him a woman in my mind.

Except psychologically, Caitlyn/Bruce is a woman

(June 13, 2015 at 1:58 am)wallym Wrote: And here, I'm not pretending, which is why I'm using the wrong pronouns, which would get me labeled transphobic, which is silly. I think the the obligation of others to 'play along' is an interesting social issue.

Play along? Tbh it's more about getting people you care about to recognize your true self and I don't see why anybody wouldn't want that

(June 13, 2015 at 1:58 am)wallym Wrote: Perhaps my problem is that I'm pretty loose in my views of gender roles. If you're a male who wants to wear a dress, go for it. If you want to get fake tits, and get some type of vagina thing going, that's fine too. Which complicates the transgender issue, because all that's left in my mind for what defines gender is the scientific assignment of sex.

Except what makes Caitlyn/Bruce a woman isn't the desire to wear dresses out high heels, it's feeling with every fibre of your body that you are a woman

Being transgender is not about gender roles
The mental condition associated with it, gender dysphoria causes significant dissonance between the brain and the body

(June 13, 2015 at 1:58 am)wallym Wrote: So when Bruce says he wants to be Caitlyn, nothing about Caitlyn is anything I would deem as necessary to identify as a female to do. It's all just superficial.

The superficial changes, like name and appearance, are made to make the person comfortable with themselves, because Bruce/Caitlyn already IS a woman and nothing about those changes makes that fact more or less valid

Transgender people are not a good example for this discussion, because they are not mis-identifying themselves, quite to the contrary actually
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Messages In This Thread
The right to mis-define oneself - by bennyboy - June 12, 2015 at 11:16 pm
RE: The right to mis-define oneself - by VeggieDog - June 12, 2015 at 11:30 pm
RE: The right to mis-define oneself - by bennyboy - June 13, 2015 at 12:05 am
RE: The right to mis-define oneself - by Lemonvariable72 - June 13, 2015 at 12:47 am
RE: The right to mis-define oneself - by henryp - June 13, 2015 at 1:58 am
RE: The right to mis-define oneself - by Longhorn - June 13, 2015 at 4:08 am
RE: The right to mis-define oneself - by bennyboy - June 13, 2015 at 5:21 am
RE: The right to mis-define oneself - by Longhorn - June 13, 2015 at 5:34 am
RE: The right to mis-define oneself - by Pyrrho - June 13, 2015 at 12:27 pm
RE: The right to mis-define oneself - by Thumpalumpacus - June 13, 2015 at 10:40 pm
RE: The right to mis-define oneself - by Anomalocaris - June 13, 2015 at 4:13 am
RE: The right to mis-define oneself - by Longhorn - June 13, 2015 at 4:33 am
RE: The right to mis-define oneself - by bennyboy - June 13, 2015 at 5:22 am
RE: The right to mis-define oneself - by Longhorn - June 13, 2015 at 5:38 am
RE: The right to mis-define oneself - by bennyboy - June 13, 2015 at 5:24 am
RE: The right to mis-define oneself - by Longhorn - June 13, 2015 at 5:36 am
RE: The right to mis-define oneself - by robvalue - June 13, 2015 at 5:42 am
RE: The right to mis-define oneself - by bennyboy - June 13, 2015 at 8:59 am
RE: The right to mis-define oneself - by Longhorn - June 13, 2015 at 9:05 am
RE: The right to mis-define oneself - by bennyboy - June 13, 2015 at 10:58 am
RE: The right to mis-define oneself - by Ravenshire - June 13, 2015 at 10:11 pm
RE: The right to mis-define oneself - by bennyboy - June 13, 2015 at 11:48 pm
RE: The right to mis-define oneself - by Pyrrho - June 14, 2015 at 12:26 pm
RE: The right to mis-define oneself - by bennyboy - June 14, 2015 at 6:15 pm
RE: The right to mis-define oneself - by I_am_not_mafia - June 14, 2015 at 6:18 pm
RE: The right to mis-define oneself - by bennyboy - June 14, 2015 at 6:22 pm
RE: The right to mis-define oneself - by I_am_not_mafia - June 15, 2015 at 4:03 pm
RE: The right to mis-define oneself - by robvalue - June 13, 2015 at 5:27 am
RE: The right to mis-define oneself - by comet - June 13, 2015 at 7:34 am
RE: The right to mis-define oneself - by Dystopia - June 13, 2015 at 7:36 am
RE: The right to mis-define oneself - by bennyboy - June 13, 2015 at 8:57 am
RE: The right to mis-define oneself - by Iroscato - June 13, 2015 at 9:08 am
RE: The right to mis-define oneself - by bennyboy - June 13, 2015 at 11:08 am
RE: The right to mis-define oneself - by Longhorn - June 13, 2015 at 11:13 am
RE: The right to mis-define oneself - by bennyboy - June 13, 2015 at 11:30 am
RE: The right to mis-define oneself - by Longhorn - June 13, 2015 at 11:55 am
RE: The right to mis-define oneself - by bennyboy - June 13, 2015 at 12:13 pm
RE: The right to mis-define oneself - by Longhorn - June 13, 2015 at 12:24 pm
RE: The right to mis-define oneself - by bennyboy - June 13, 2015 at 8:21 pm
RE: The right to mis-define oneself - by Cato - June 13, 2015 at 8:45 pm
RE: The right to mis-define oneself - by bennyboy - June 13, 2015 at 11:47 pm
RE: The right to mis-define oneself - by Thumpalumpacus - June 14, 2015 at 12:02 am
RE: The right to mis-define oneself - by bennyboy - June 14, 2015 at 12:14 am
RE: The right to mis-define oneself - by Thumpalumpacus - June 14, 2015 at 3:29 am
RE: The right to mis-define oneself - by bennyboy - June 14, 2015 at 4:23 am
RE: The right to mis-define oneself - by Longhorn - June 14, 2015 at 4:53 am
RE: The right to mis-define oneself - by Thumpalumpacus - June 14, 2015 at 1:01 pm
RE: The right to mis-define oneself - by Cato - June 14, 2015 at 10:56 am
RE: The right to mis-define oneself - by bennyboy - June 14, 2015 at 5:53 pm
RE: The right to mis-define oneself - by Thumpalumpacus - June 14, 2015 at 6:00 pm
RE: The right to mis-define oneself - by bennyboy - June 14, 2015 at 6:03 pm
RE: The right to mis-define oneself - by Thumpalumpacus - June 14, 2015 at 6:10 pm
RE: The right to mis-define oneself - by bennyboy - June 14, 2015 at 6:20 pm
RE: The right to mis-define oneself - by Thumpalumpacus - June 14, 2015 at 6:47 pm
RE: The right to mis-define oneself - by bennyboy - June 14, 2015 at 7:43 pm
RE: The right to mis-define oneself - by Thumpalumpacus - June 14, 2015 at 8:17 pm
RE: The right to mis-define oneself - by bennyboy - June 14, 2015 at 9:01 pm
RE: The right to mis-define oneself - by Thumpalumpacus - June 15, 2015 at 1:26 am
RE: The right to mis-define oneself - by bennyboy - June 15, 2015 at 9:29 am
RE: The right to mis-define oneself - by Thumpalumpacus - June 15, 2015 at 12:21 pm
RE: The right to mis-define oneself - by bennyboy - June 15, 2015 at 4:05 pm
RE: The right to mis-define oneself - by Thumpalumpacus - June 17, 2015 at 1:03 am
RE: The right to mis-define oneself - by I_am_not_mafia - June 14, 2015 at 6:36 pm
RE: The right to mis-define oneself - by Nope - June 13, 2015 at 10:41 pm
RE: The right to mis-define oneself - by bennyboy - June 13, 2015 at 11:51 pm
RE: The right to mis-define oneself - by Thumpalumpacus - June 13, 2015 at 10:55 pm
RE: The right to mis-define oneself - by Longhorn - June 14, 2015 at 3:34 am
RE: The right to mis-define oneself - by bennyboy - June 14, 2015 at 4:29 am
RE: The right to mis-define oneself - by Longhorn - June 14, 2015 at 4:37 am
RE: The right to mis-define oneself - by henryp - June 14, 2015 at 11:15 am
RE: The right to mis-define oneself - by Longhorn - June 14, 2015 at 11:20 am
RE: The right to mis-define oneself - by henryp - June 14, 2015 at 11:47 am
RE: The right to mis-define oneself - by Longhorn - June 14, 2015 at 1:04 pm
RE: The right to mis-define oneself - by bennyboy - June 14, 2015 at 6:00 pm
RE: The right to mis-define oneself - by Longhorn - June 15, 2015 at 12:54 am
RE: The right to mis-define oneself - by I_am_not_mafia - June 15, 2015 at 4:01 pm
RE: The right to mis-define oneself - by Regina - June 14, 2015 at 5:07 am
RE: The right to mis-define oneself - by bennyboy - June 14, 2015 at 7:00 am
RE: The right to mis-define oneself - by Longhorn - June 14, 2015 at 7:02 am
RE: The right to mis-define oneself - by Thumpalumpacus - June 14, 2015 at 1:03 pm
RE: The right to mis-define oneself - by Nope - June 13, 2015 at 10:34 pm
RE: The right to mis-define oneself - by Thumpalumpacus - June 13, 2015 at 10:45 pm
RE: The right to mis-define oneself - by bennyboy - June 14, 2015 at 12:09 am
RE: The right to mis-define oneself - by Thumpalumpacus - June 14, 2015 at 3:25 am
RE: The right to mis-define oneself - by bennyboy - June 14, 2015 at 4:20 am
RE: The right to mis-define oneself - by Dystopia - June 16, 2015 at 6:54 am
RE: The right to mis-define oneself - by I_am_not_mafia - June 16, 2015 at 1:52 pm
RE: The right to mis-define oneself - by Dystopia - June 16, 2015 at 2:01 pm
RE: The right to mis-define oneself - by I_am_not_mafia - June 16, 2015 at 2:16 pm
The right to mis-define oneself - by KUSA - June 13, 2015 at 10:26 am
RE: The right to mis-define oneself - by Thumpalumpacus - June 13, 2015 at 10:50 pm
RE: The right to mis-define oneself - by SteelCurtain - June 13, 2015 at 11:42 am
RE: The right to mis-define oneself - by Regina - June 13, 2015 at 10:43 pm
RE: The right to mis-define oneself - by SteelCurtain - June 14, 2015 at 12:18 am
RE: The right to mis-define oneself - by bennyboy - June 14, 2015 at 12:23 am
RE: The right to mis-define oneself - by SteelCurtain - June 14, 2015 at 12:52 am
RE: The right to mis-define oneself - by bennyboy - June 14, 2015 at 1:36 am
RE: The right to mis-define oneself - by SteelCurtain - June 14, 2015 at 1:41 am
RE: The right to mis-define oneself - by Thumpalumpacus - June 14, 2015 at 4:19 am
RE: The right to mis-define oneself - by rexbeccarox - June 14, 2015 at 6:10 am
RE: The right to mis-define oneself - by bennyboy - June 14, 2015 at 6:52 am
RE: The right to mis-define oneself - by Longhorn - June 14, 2015 at 6:17 am
RE: The right to mis-define oneself - by Regina - June 14, 2015 at 11:30 am
RE: The right to mis-define oneself - by henryp - June 14, 2015 at 11:45 am
RE: The right to mis-define oneself - by Thumpalumpacus - June 14, 2015 at 3:19 pm
RE: The right to mis-define oneself - by SteelCurtain - June 14, 2015 at 11:45 am
RE: The right to mis-define oneself - by bennyboy - June 14, 2015 at 5:55 pm
RE: The right to mis-define oneself - by Bad Wolf - June 14, 2015 at 1:55 pm
RE: The right to mis-define oneself - by Longhorn - June 14, 2015 at 2:24 pm
RE: The right to mis-define oneself - by Bad Wolf - June 14, 2015 at 2:47 pm
RE: The right to mis-define oneself - by Longhorn - June 14, 2015 at 2:56 pm
RE: The right to mis-define oneself - by Bad Wolf - June 14, 2015 at 3:15 pm
RE: The right to mis-define oneself - by Longhorn - June 14, 2015 at 3:19 pm
RE: The right to mis-define oneself - by Regina - June 14, 2015 at 4:23 pm
RE: The right to mis-define oneself - by bennyboy - June 14, 2015 at 6:10 pm
RE: The right to mis-define oneself - by Cato - June 14, 2015 at 5:56 pm
RE: The right to mis-define oneself - by bennyboy - June 14, 2015 at 6:01 pm
RE: The right to mis-define oneself - by Regina - June 14, 2015 at 6:53 pm
RE: The right to mis-define oneself - by SteelCurtain - June 14, 2015 at 7:20 pm
RE: The right to mis-define oneself - by bennyboy - June 14, 2015 at 7:47 pm
RE: The right to mis-define oneself - by Regina - June 14, 2015 at 7:46 pm
RE: The right to mis-define oneself - by bennyboy - June 14, 2015 at 7:55 pm
RE: The right to mis-define oneself - by SteelCurtain - June 14, 2015 at 8:05 pm
RE: The right to mis-define oneself - by bennyboy - June 14, 2015 at 8:28 pm
RE: The right to mis-define oneself - by I_am_not_mafia - June 15, 2015 at 4:07 pm
RE: The right to mis-define oneself - by bennyboy - June 15, 2015 at 6:39 pm
RE: The right to mis-define oneself - by Regina - June 14, 2015 at 8:20 pm
RE: The right to mis-define oneself - by bennyboy - June 14, 2015 at 8:32 pm
RE: The right to mis-define oneself - by SteelCurtain - June 14, 2015 at 8:39 pm
RE: The right to mis-define oneself - by bennyboy - June 14, 2015 at 9:13 pm
RE: The right to mis-define oneself - by SteelCurtain - June 14, 2015 at 10:04 pm
RE: The right to mis-define oneself - by bennyboy - June 14, 2015 at 10:33 pm
RE: The right to mis-define oneself - by rexbeccarox - June 14, 2015 at 10:13 pm
RE: The right to mis-define oneself - by bennyboy - June 14, 2015 at 10:47 pm
RE: The right to mis-define oneself - by SteelCurtain - June 14, 2015 at 10:46 pm
RE: The right to mis-define oneself - by bennyboy - June 14, 2015 at 10:57 pm
RE: The right to mis-define oneself - by SteelCurtain - June 14, 2015 at 10:53 pm
RE: The right to mis-define oneself - by bennyboy - June 14, 2015 at 10:58 pm
RE: The right to mis-define oneself - by Thumpalumpacus - June 15, 2015 at 1:33 am
RE: The right to mis-define oneself - by SteelCurtain - June 14, 2015 at 11:08 pm
RE: The right to mis-define oneself - by bennyboy - June 14, 2015 at 11:43 pm
RE: The right to mis-define oneself - by SteelCurtain - June 15, 2015 at 12:30 am
RE: The right to mis-define oneself - by bennyboy - June 15, 2015 at 12:48 am
RE: The right to mis-define oneself - by bennyboy - June 15, 2015 at 12:49 am
RE: The right to mis-define oneself - by SteelCurtain - June 15, 2015 at 1:43 am
RE: The right to mis-define oneself - by robvalue - June 15, 2015 at 9:54 am
RE: The right to mis-define oneself - by Regina - June 15, 2015 at 1:35 pm
RE: The right to mis-define oneself - by SteelCurtain - June 15, 2015 at 2:17 pm
RE: The right to mis-define oneself - by Longhorn - June 15, 2015 at 4:25 pm
RE: The right to mis-define oneself - by Longhorn - June 15, 2015 at 4:28 pm
RE: The right to mis-define oneself - by Longhorn - June 15, 2015 at 4:40 pm
RE: The right to mis-define oneself - by Longhorn - June 15, 2015 at 4:59 pm
RE: The right to mis-define oneself - by I_am_not_mafia - June 16, 2015 at 2:26 am
RE: The right to mis-define oneself - by Dystopia - June 16, 2015 at 6:55 am
RE: The right to mis-define oneself - by robvalue - June 16, 2015 at 7:00 am
RE: The right to mis-define oneself - by henryp - June 16, 2015 at 2:03 pm
RE: The right to mis-define oneself - by Longhorn - June 16, 2015 at 2:15 pm
RE: The right to mis-define oneself - by henryp - June 16, 2015 at 2:51 pm
RE: The right to mis-define oneself - by Longhorn - June 16, 2015 at 2:56 pm
RE: The right to mis-define oneself - by I_am_not_mafia - June 16, 2015 at 2:28 pm
RE: The right to mis-define oneself - by henryp - June 16, 2015 at 2:49 pm
RE: The right to mis-define oneself - by I_am_not_mafia - June 16, 2015 at 3:13 pm
RE: The right to mis-define oneself - by bennyboy - June 16, 2015 at 6:14 pm
RE: The right to mis-define oneself - by henryp - June 16, 2015 at 11:04 pm
RE: The right to mis-define oneself - by I_am_not_mafia - June 17, 2015 at 1:57 pm
RE: The right to mis-define oneself - by bennyboy - June 16, 2015 at 11:21 pm
RE: The right to mis-define oneself - by rexbeccarox - June 16, 2015 at 11:43 pm
RE: The right to mis-define oneself - by bennyboy - June 17, 2015 at 12:26 am
RE: The right to mis-define oneself - by henryp - June 16, 2015 at 11:25 pm
RE: The right to mis-define oneself - by rexbeccarox - June 17, 2015 at 12:59 am
RE: The right to mis-define oneself - by bennyboy - June 17, 2015 at 8:37 am
RE: The right to mis-define oneself - by Longhorn - June 17, 2015 at 8:40 am
RE: The right to mis-define oneself - by bennyboy - June 17, 2015 at 10:46 am
RE: The right to mis-define oneself - by I_am_not_mafia - June 17, 2015 at 2:03 pm
RE: The right to mis-define oneself - by robvalue - June 17, 2015 at 8:50 am
RE: The right to mis-define oneself - by henryp - June 19, 2015 at 10:12 am
RE: The right to mis-define oneself - by paulpablo - June 19, 2015 at 10:26 pm
RE: The right to mis-define oneself - by henryp - June 19, 2015 at 7:36 pm
RE: The right to mis-define oneself - by bennyboy - June 19, 2015 at 8:09 pm
RE: The right to mis-define oneself - by henryp - June 19, 2015 at 8:05 pm
RE: The right to mis-define oneself - by bennyboy - June 19, 2015 at 9:10 pm
RE: The right to mis-define oneself - by Regina - June 19, 2015 at 10:32 pm
RE: The right to mis-define oneself - by The Grand Nudger - June 19, 2015 at 10:37 pm
RE: The right to mis-define oneself - by bennyboy - June 19, 2015 at 11:01 pm
RE: The right to mis-define oneself - by The Grand Nudger - June 19, 2015 at 11:10 pm
RE: The right to mis-define oneself - by bennyboy - June 20, 2015 at 6:07 am
RE: The right to mis-define oneself - by paulpablo - June 21, 2015 at 11:16 am
RE: The right to mis-define oneself - by Longhorn - June 20, 2015 at 6:09 am
RE: The right to mis-define oneself - by bennyboy - June 20, 2015 at 6:13 am
RE: The right to mis-define oneself - by The Grand Nudger - June 20, 2015 at 12:29 pm
RE: The right to mis-define oneself - by bennyboy - June 20, 2015 at 7:42 pm
RE: The right to mis-define oneself - by paulpablo - June 21, 2015 at 11:23 am
RE: The right to mis-define oneself - by bennyboy - June 20, 2015 at 9:41 pm
RE: The right to mis-define oneself - by The Grand Nudger - June 21, 2015 at 11:11 am
RE: The right to mis-define oneself - by The Grand Nudger - June 21, 2015 at 11:21 am
RE: The right to mis-define oneself - by The Grand Nudger - June 21, 2015 at 11:27 am
RE: The right to mis-define oneself - by paulpablo - June 21, 2015 at 4:59 pm
RE: The right to mis-define oneself - by paulpablo - June 21, 2015 at 5:34 pm
RE: The right to mis-define oneself - by paulpablo - June 21, 2015 at 5:43 pm
RE: The right to mis-define oneself - by paulpablo - June 21, 2015 at 5:37 pm
RE: The right to mis-define oneself - by paulpablo - June 21, 2015 at 5:38 pm
RE: The right to mis-define oneself - by paulpablo - June 21, 2015 at 5:45 pm
RE: The right to mis-define oneself - by paulpablo - June 21, 2015 at 8:16 pm
RE: The right to mis-define oneself - by The Grand Nudger - June 21, 2015 at 11:40 pm
RE: The right to mis-define oneself - by paulpablo - June 22, 2015 at 12:21 am
RE: The right to mis-define oneself - by The Grand Nudger - June 22, 2015 at 12:26 am
RE: The right to mis-define oneself - by paulpablo - June 22, 2015 at 2:39 am
RE: The right to mis-define oneself - by Thumpalumpacus - June 22, 2015 at 1:58 am
RE: The right to mis-define oneself - by bennyboy - June 22, 2015 at 8:56 am

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