Hostage to fear

[Randy Carson]

I used to LOVE to quote Irenaeus when someone was arguing a point to me like I am with you now.  Problem is, Irenaeus was born how long after Paul was beheaded?  

About 55 years. Why would that be a problem? Is there some particular point that you think is thereby undermined?

Polycarp was a disciple of the Apostle John. Irenaeus was a disciple of Polycarp.

Now, if you want to argue that Polycarp and Irenaeus were playing fast and loose with the facts of the gospel which had been handed down to them by John, then I'm interested to hear how you plan to make that case. Have you read the Martyrdom of Polycarp?

What was the earliest known canonical document in the New Testament?  Who authored it?  

The Letter of James. James.

What does it say about Christ's miracles?  

Nothing. It was a pastoral letter...not a biography.

Then how long after that book was written were the gospels?

About eight years or so for the Gospel of Mark. And as I'm guessing you know by the way you have carefully phrased your questions, the Q document may have been in circulation before this. Additionally, Luke mentions in his prologue that many (not just Mark) had undertaken to write an account of all that Jesus had said and done. Finally, Matthew probably wrote his gospel in Aramaic first...if so, that would also have been done at a fairly early date.

Finally, I'm intrigued by the idea that Matthew was a tax collector who probably had some skills with pen and ink. It may well have been the case that Jesus, like many of the religious teachers of his day, had students taking notes during his various sermons. Matthew would have been able to do this, and this may be one reason why he was chosen to be one of the Twelve.

But you must have a reason for asking all these questions...

...You see, the catholic church didn't make hell up.  It simply HAD to start taking things literally in order to make Christ divine.

You mean like the resurrection? Yep. Took that literally.
You mean like "this is my body...this is my blood" at the last Supper (and in John 6)? Yep. Took that literally.
You mean like priests have the authority to hear confessions and forgive sins? Yep. Took that literally.

And regarding Sheol... What is *your* understanding of Sheol?

Sheol is the place of the dead. This is where Jesus went to liberate those who were waiting for their salvation. The Catechism of the Catholic Church explains it this way:

632 The frequent New Testament affirmations that Jesus was "raised from the dead" presuppose that the crucified one sojourned in the realm of the dead prior to his resurrection.478 This was the first meaning given in the apostolic preaching to Christ's descent into hell: that Jesus, like all men, experienced death and in his soul joined the others in the realm of the dead. But he descended there as Savior, proclaiming the Good News to the spirits imprisoned there.479

633 Scripture calls the abode of the dead, to which the dead Christ went down, "hell" - Sheol in Hebrew or Hades in Greek - because those who are there are deprived of the vision of God.480 Such is the case for all the dead, whether evil or righteous, while they await the Redeemer: which does not mean that their lot is identical, as Jesus shows through the parable of the poor man Lazarus who was received into "Abraham's bosom":481 "It is precisely these holy souls, who awaited their Savior in Abraham's bosom, whom Christ the Lord delivered when he descended into hell."482 Jesus did not descend into hell to deliver the damned, nor to destroy the hell of damnation, but to free the just who had gone before him.483

634 "The gospel was preached even to the dead."484 The descent into hell brings the Gospel message of salvation to complete fulfillment. This is the last phase of Jesus' messianic mission, a phase which is condensed in time but vast in its real significance: the spread of Christ's redemptive work to all men of all times and all places, for all who are saved have been made sharers in the redemption.

635 Christ went down into the depths of death so that "the dead will hear the voice of the Son of God, and those who hear will live."485 Jesus, "the Author of life", by dying destroyed "him who has the power of death, that is, the devil, and [delivered] all those who through fear of death were subject to lifelong bondage."486 Henceforth the risen Christ holds "the keys of Death and Hades", so that "at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, in heaven and on earth and under the earth."487