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Hostage to fear
RE: Hostage to fear
(June 24, 2015 at 5:31 pm)Randy Carson Wrote: Wouldn't it depend on the question?

I might quote a chunk of the Catechism if someone asked me a doctrinal question. I might give you my opinion if you ask what I think of Pope Francis.

Tell you what, I promise not to quote the Catechism in any of our exchange. I might still offer a thoroughly Catholic response to a question (and why wouldn't I if the question requires it), but I won't beat you over the head with encyclicals, etc.

Deal?

You talk. I'll listen for starters.

Very well... I'll go to this then...

Quote:Let me start with how I would talk to someone in my own Church if we were having fellowship over beers following liturgy (as men often do at my Church);

The bible mentions belief as though it were a choice. I've found that my Christian identity is wholly wrapped up in trying (desperately) to believe, when I simply have not been convinced. A positive affirmation of belief "on" Christ Jesus would be a lie in my case... something that very doctrine prohibits. What I do believe is that I've made tremendous effort in trying to believe, by investigating the faith. Without deconstructing this paragraph, please address this over all point; If belief is a choice and there is evidence that this belief is convincing and rational, why hasn't this evidence rationally convinced me to believe? Especially when I'm not ignorant to it... down to its most specific points.

(June 24, 2015 at 5:06 pm)tonechaser77 Wrote: I know right where you stand because I was in the same position one year ago. I am still a somewhat closeted atheist. Hell, I even attend church and play on our worship team for goodness' sake! My wife is still a confident believer although her belief rests on absolutely no theology whatsoever. She wants to raise our two boys that way also,  which I have conceded to, for now. If I can offer any advice, it's to keep reading, keep learning and time will eventually dispel the last of your worries. Even though my indoctrination ran deep I now have almost complete confidence that there is not a god. And if there is, let him/her change my mind. He/she would know what it would take.  Smile

Yea, man. I even told my wife "If you want to continue going to church and praying as a family, I'm down. However, I need to live as a agnostic / deist openly in the house." She agreed. In fact, in the last few days that she's known this about me... we've had a much more open relationship than we did before.

Being a parent, I'm not going to let anyone preach hell fire to my children, absolutely never.

Thank you for your words of advice. I am taking them to heart. Smile
Reply



Messages In This Thread
Hostage to fear - by Spacetime - June 17, 2015 at 11:47 am
RE: Hostage to fear - by Nope - June 17, 2015 at 12:10 pm
RE: Hostage to fear - by Spacetime - June 17, 2015 at 12:25 pm
RE: Hostage to fear - by Minimalist - June 17, 2015 at 12:16 pm
RE: Hostage to fear - by LastPoet - June 17, 2015 at 12:40 pm
RE: Hostage to fear - by Spacetime - June 17, 2015 at 1:05 pm
RE: Hostage to fear - by Pyrrho - June 17, 2015 at 3:05 pm
RE: Hostage to fear - by The Grand Nudger - June 17, 2015 at 12:41 pm
RE: Hostage to fear - by Tonus - June 17, 2015 at 12:46 pm
RE: Hostage to fear - by Pyrrho - June 17, 2015 at 12:48 pm
RE: Hostage to fear - by robvalue - June 17, 2015 at 12:50 pm
RE: Hostage to fear - by robvalue - June 17, 2015 at 2:23 pm
RE: Hostage to fear - by Minimalist - June 17, 2015 at 2:53 pm
RE: Hostage to fear - by robvalue - June 17, 2015 at 2:59 pm
RE: Hostage to fear - by SteelCurtain - June 17, 2015 at 3:03 pm
RE: Hostage to fear - by Longhorn - June 17, 2015 at 3:07 pm
RE: Hostage to fear - by Spacetime - June 17, 2015 at 8:48 pm
RE: Hostage to fear - by Randy Carson - June 17, 2015 at 10:15 pm
RE: Hostage to fear - by Spacetime - June 18, 2015 at 12:58 am
RE: Hostage to fear - by Randy Carson - June 18, 2015 at 11:24 pm
RE: Hostage to fear - by Spacetime - June 19, 2015 at 5:26 pm
RE: Hostage to fear - by Randy Carson - June 20, 2015 at 9:29 pm
RE: Hostage to fear - by Randy Carson - June 20, 2015 at 11:00 pm
RE: Hostage to fear - by Spacetime - June 21, 2015 at 12:08 am
RE: Hostage to fear - by Randy Carson - June 21, 2015 at 12:50 am
RE: Hostage to fear - by Randy Carson - June 21, 2015 at 9:06 am
RE: Hostage to fear - by Randy Carson - June 21, 2015 at 9:33 am
RE: Hostage to fear - by Spacetime - June 21, 2015 at 4:54 pm
RE: Hostage to fear - by Randy Carson - June 23, 2015 at 5:56 pm
RE: Hostage to fear - by Simon Moon - June 23, 2015 at 6:11 pm
RE: Hostage to fear - by Randy Carson - June 23, 2015 at 6:18 pm
RE: Hostage to fear - by Simon Moon - June 24, 2015 at 3:14 pm
RE: Hostage to fear - by Spacetime - June 24, 2015 at 1:59 pm
RE: Hostage to fear - by Randy Carson - June 24, 2015 at 5:31 pm
RE: Hostage to fear - by Spacetime - June 24, 2015 at 5:48 pm
RE: Hostage to fear - by Randy Carson - June 24, 2015 at 7:29 pm
RE: Hostage to fear - by Spacetime - June 24, 2015 at 7:38 pm
RE: Hostage to fear - by Randy Carson - June 24, 2015 at 8:34 pm
RE: Hostage to fear - by Randy Carson - July 16, 2015 at 10:04 pm
RE: Hostage to fear - by Spacetime - July 16, 2015 at 10:18 pm
RE: Hostage to fear - by Randy Carson - July 16, 2015 at 10:40 pm
RE: Hostage to fear - by Nope - July 17, 2015 at 7:38 am
RE: Hostage to fear - by Spacetime - July 17, 2015 at 9:10 pm
RE: Hostage to fear - by Randy Carson - July 17, 2015 at 9:41 pm
RE: Hostage to fear - by Randy Carson - July 17, 2015 at 9:48 pm
RE: Hostage to fear - by Spacetime - July 17, 2015 at 10:19 pm
RE: Hostage to fear - by Randy Carson - July 18, 2015 at 7:50 pm
RE: Hostage to fear - by Nope - July 19, 2015 at 8:42 am
RE: Hostage to fear - by Randy Carson - July 19, 2015 at 11:49 am
RE: Hostage to fear - by Pyrrho - July 19, 2015 at 1:09 pm
RE: Hostage to fear - by Randy Carson - July 19, 2015 at 9:15 pm
RE: Hostage to fear - by Wyrd of Gawd - July 19, 2015 at 9:45 pm
RE: Hostage to fear - by Spacetime - July 19, 2015 at 6:38 pm
RE: Hostage to fear - by Randy Carson - July 19, 2015 at 9:27 pm
RE: Hostage to fear - by Spacetime - July 19, 2015 at 10:39 pm
RE: Hostage to fear - by Randy Carson - July 20, 2015 at 6:42 pm
RE: Hostage to fear - by Spacetime - July 20, 2015 at 7:38 pm
RE: Hostage to fear - by Pyrrho - July 20, 2015 at 9:34 pm
RE: Hostage to fear - by Randy Carson - July 21, 2015 at 7:53 am
RE: Hostage to fear - by Randy Carson - July 21, 2015 at 9:03 am
RE: Hostage to fear - by dyresand - July 19, 2015 at 11:57 am
RE: Hostage to fear - by Randy Carson - July 19, 2015 at 12:46 pm
RE: Hostage to fear - by dyresand - July 19, 2015 at 12:50 pm
RE: Hostage to fear - by dyresand - July 19, 2015 at 1:06 pm
RE: Hostage to fear - by Wyrd of Gawd - June 19, 2015 at 11:33 pm
RE: Hostage to fear - by Spacetime - June 20, 2015 at 12:02 am
RE: Hostage to fear - by Wyrd of Gawd - June 20, 2015 at 12:14 am
RE: Hostage to fear - by Randy Carson - June 20, 2015 at 11:15 pm
RE: Hostage to fear - by Minimalist - June 17, 2015 at 8:51 pm
RE: Hostage to fear - by Spacetime - June 17, 2015 at 9:09 pm
RE: Hostage to fear - by Minimalist - June 17, 2015 at 9:19 pm
RE: Hostage to fear - by ignoramus - June 17, 2015 at 9:39 pm
RE: Hostage to fear - by Exian - June 17, 2015 at 9:57 pm
RE: Hostage to fear - by Spacetime - June 17, 2015 at 10:53 pm
RE: Hostage to fear - by Randy Carson - June 17, 2015 at 10:06 pm
RE: Hostage to fear - by Spacetime - June 18, 2015 at 9:13 pm
RE: Hostage to fear - by Randy Carson - June 18, 2015 at 11:30 pm
RE: Hostage to fear - by Spacetime - June 19, 2015 at 6:33 am
RE: Hostage to fear - by Minimalist - June 17, 2015 at 10:22 pm
RE: Hostage to fear - by Jenny A - June 17, 2015 at 10:43 pm
RE: Hostage to fear - by Longhorn - June 18, 2015 at 1:08 am
RE: Hostage to fear - by The Grand Nudger - June 18, 2015 at 1:12 am
RE: Hostage to fear - by robvalue - June 18, 2015 at 3:56 am
RE: Hostage to fear - by The Grand Nudger - June 18, 2015 at 9:25 pm
RE: Hostage to fear - by Spacetime - June 18, 2015 at 9:31 pm
RE: Hostage to fear - by Jenny A - June 18, 2015 at 11:49 pm
RE: Hostage to fear - by The Grand Nudger - June 18, 2015 at 11:35 pm
RE: Hostage to fear - by Minimalist - June 18, 2015 at 11:56 pm
RE: Hostage to fear - by Randy Carson - June 19, 2015 at 12:44 am
RE: Hostage to fear - by Wyrd of Gawd - June 19, 2015 at 11:47 pm
RE: Hostage to fear - by Spacetime - June 20, 2015 at 12:17 am
RE: Hostage to fear - by The Grand Nudger - June 19, 2015 at 1:57 am
RE: Hostage to fear - by The Grand Nudger - June 19, 2015 at 4:50 am
RE: Hostage to fear - by Longhorn - June 19, 2015 at 7:16 am
RE: Hostage to fear - by Randy Carson - June 19, 2015 at 4:33 pm
RE: Hostage to fear - by Minimalist - June 19, 2015 at 8:58 pm
RE: Hostage to fear - by Pyrrho - June 19, 2015 at 9:40 pm
RE: Hostage to fear - by Spacetime - June 19, 2015 at 10:06 pm
RE: Hostage to fear - by Minimalist - June 19, 2015 at 10:28 pm
RE: Hostage to fear - by Spacetime - June 19, 2015 at 10:35 pm
RE: Hostage to fear - by robvalue - June 19, 2015 at 4:03 pm
RE: Hostage to fear - by Longhorn - June 19, 2015 at 4:38 pm
RE: Hostage to fear - by The Grand Nudger - June 19, 2015 at 4:52 pm
RE: Hostage to fear - by Randy Carson - June 19, 2015 at 8:09 pm
RE: Hostage to fear - by Spacetime - June 19, 2015 at 8:33 pm
RE: Hostage to fear - by Exian - June 19, 2015 at 7:25 pm
RE: Hostage to fear - by Spacetime - June 19, 2015 at 8:47 pm
RE: Hostage to fear - by The Grand Nudger - June 19, 2015 at 8:04 pm
RE: Hostage to fear - by The Grand Nudger - June 19, 2015 at 8:17 pm
RE: Hostage to fear - by The Grand Nudger - June 19, 2015 at 8:45 pm
RE: Hostage to fear - by Spacetime - June 19, 2015 at 9:31 pm
RE: Hostage to fear - by Minimalist - June 19, 2015 at 10:54 pm
RE: Hostage to fear - by The Grand Nudger - June 19, 2015 at 10:57 pm
RE: Hostage to fear - by Spacetime - June 19, 2015 at 11:50 pm
RE: Hostage to fear - by SteelCurtain - June 19, 2015 at 11:29 pm
RE: Hostage to fear - by Minimalist - June 20, 2015 at 12:01 am
RE: Hostage to fear - by Spacetime - June 20, 2015 at 12:20 am
RE: Hostage to fear - by The Grand Nudger - June 20, 2015 at 12:18 am
RE: Hostage to fear - by Wyrd of Gawd - June 20, 2015 at 12:35 am
RE: Hostage to fear - by The Grand Nudger - June 20, 2015 at 1:11 am
RE: Hostage to fear - by robvalue - June 20, 2015 at 2:30 am
RE: Hostage to fear - by Spacetime - June 20, 2015 at 9:30 pm
RE: Hostage to fear - by Randy Carson - June 20, 2015 at 11:44 pm
RE: Hostage to fear - by Randy Carson - June 21, 2015 at 1:58 am
RE: Hostage to fear - by Minimalist - June 21, 2015 at 2:07 am
RE: Hostage to fear - by robvalue - June 21, 2015 at 3:05 am
RE: Hostage to fear - by Spacetime - June 21, 2015 at 5:05 pm
RE: Hostage to fear - by Pyrrho - June 21, 2015 at 12:11 pm
RE: Hostage to fear - by robvalue - June 21, 2015 at 12:20 pm
RE: Hostage to fear - by Minimalist - June 21, 2015 at 5:01 pm
RE: Hostage to fear - by robvalue - June 22, 2015 at 4:21 am
RE: Hostage to fear - by Minimalist - June 24, 2015 at 2:18 pm
RE: Hostage to fear - by tonechaser77 - June 24, 2015 at 5:06 pm
RE: Hostage to fear - by iburnwater - June 24, 2015 at 8:46 pm
RE: Hostage to fear - by Spacetime - June 24, 2015 at 11:32 pm
RE: Hostage to fear - by robvalue - June 25, 2015 at 12:22 am
RE: Hostage to fear - by Pyrrho - June 25, 2015 at 9:55 am
RE: Hostage to fear - by robvalue - June 26, 2015 at 4:02 am
RE: Hostage to fear - by SuperEddy - June 26, 2015 at 9:54 am
RE: Hostage to fear - by ignoramus - June 25, 2015 at 1:49 am
RE: Hostage to fear - by dyresand - June 25, 2015 at 10:01 am
RE: Hostage to fear - by Spacetime - June 25, 2015 at 5:31 pm
RE: Hostage to fear - by robvalue - June 26, 2015 at 11:29 am
RE: Hostage to fear - by SuperEddy - June 27, 2015 at 8:03 pm
RE: Hostage to fear - by robvalue - June 28, 2015 at 2:05 am
RE: Hostage to fear - by Longhorn - July 17, 2015 at 4:44 am
RE: Hostage to fear - by ignoramus - July 17, 2015 at 5:14 am
RE: Hostage to fear - by ignoramus - July 17, 2015 at 7:50 am
RE: Hostage to fear - by Nope - July 17, 2015 at 8:15 am
RE: Hostage to fear - by Nope - July 17, 2015 at 8:11 am
RE: Hostage to fear - by robvalue - July 17, 2015 at 8:22 am
RE: Hostage to fear - by Godschild - July 17, 2015 at 10:51 pm
RE: Hostage to fear - by The Grand Nudger - July 17, 2015 at 11:31 pm
RE: Hostage to fear - by Godschild - July 20, 2015 at 6:05 pm
RE: Hostage to fear - by Crossless1 - July 20, 2015 at 6:07 pm
RE: Hostage to fear - by Spacetime - July 20, 2015 at 6:42 pm
RE: Hostage to fear - by Godschild - July 20, 2015 at 8:43 pm
RE: Hostage to fear - by Spacetime - July 20, 2015 at 9:13 pm
RE: Hostage to fear - by Randy Carson - July 21, 2015 at 7:24 am
RE: Hostage to fear - by Spacetime - July 21, 2015 at 2:54 pm
RE: Hostage to fear - by Randy Carson - July 22, 2015 at 4:53 pm
RE: Hostage to fear - by Randy Carson - July 22, 2015 at 5:02 pm
RE: Hostage to fear - by Spacetime - July 23, 2015 at 4:08 pm
RE: Hostage to fear - by Randy Carson - July 23, 2015 at 10:41 pm
RE: Hostage to fear - by Spacetime - July 24, 2015 at 4:18 pm
RE: Hostage to fear - by Randy Carson - July 24, 2015 at 4:34 pm
RE: Hostage to fear - by Spacetime - July 24, 2015 at 6:07 pm
RE: Hostage to fear - by Randy Carson - July 24, 2015 at 6:21 pm
RE: Hostage to fear - by Spacetime - July 24, 2015 at 7:45 pm
RE: Hostage to fear - by Randy Carson - July 24, 2015 at 8:08 pm
RE: Hostage to fear - by Randy Carson - July 24, 2015 at 8:10 pm
RE: Hostage to fear - by Spacetime - July 24, 2015 at 9:02 pm
RE: Hostage to fear - by Randy Carson - July 24, 2015 at 9:19 pm
RE: Hostage to fear - by Spacetime - July 24, 2015 at 9:23 pm
RE: Hostage to fear - by Randy Carson - July 24, 2015 at 9:26 pm
RE: Hostage to fear - by Spacetime - July 24, 2015 at 9:36 pm
RE: Hostage to fear - by Randy Carson - July 24, 2015 at 9:41 pm
RE: Hostage to fear - by Spacetime - July 24, 2015 at 9:48 pm
RE: Hostage to fear - by Randy Carson - July 24, 2015 at 10:00 pm
RE: Hostage to fear - by Spacetime - July 24, 2015 at 10:10 pm
RE: Hostage to fear - by Randy Carson - July 24, 2015 at 10:22 pm
RE: Hostage to fear - by Spacetime - July 25, 2015 at 9:36 pm
RE: Hostage to fear - by Ravenshire - July 24, 2015 at 10:58 pm
RE: Hostage to fear - by Spacetime - July 24, 2015 at 8:44 pm
RE: Hostage to fear - by Randy Carson - July 25, 2015 at 9:37 pm
RE: Hostage to fear - by Randy Carson - July 26, 2015 at 8:16 am
RE: Hostage to fear - by Spacetime - July 27, 2015 at 4:50 pm
RE: Hostage to fear - by Nope - July 24, 2015 at 5:06 pm
RE: Hostage to fear - by Nope - July 24, 2015 at 5:11 pm
RE: Hostage to fear - by Nope - July 23, 2015 at 4:23 pm
RE: Hostage to fear - by Randy Carson - July 21, 2015 at 9:21 am
RE: Hostage to fear - by Randy Carson - July 21, 2015 at 10:14 pm
RE: Hostage to fear - by Randy Carson - July 25, 2015 at 9:46 am
RE: Hostage to fear - by Godschild - July 23, 2015 at 12:10 am
RE: Hostage to fear - by Spacetime - July 23, 2015 at 5:28 pm
RE: Hostage to fear - by Godschild - July 24, 2015 at 3:25 pm
RE: Hostage to fear - by robvalue - July 19, 2015 at 11:24 am
RE: Hostage to fear - by robvalue - July 19, 2015 at 1:14 pm
RE: Hostage to fear - by Pyrrho - July 19, 2015 at 1:21 pm
RE: Hostage to fear - by robvalue - July 19, 2015 at 1:44 pm
RE: Hostage to fear - by The Grand Nudger - July 19, 2015 at 10:43 pm
RE: Hostage to fear - by Randy Carson - July 20, 2015 at 6:49 pm
RE: Hostage to fear - by The Grand Nudger - July 20, 2015 at 7:41 pm
RE: Hostage to fear - by The Grand Nudger - July 21, 2015 at 9:06 am
RE: Hostage to fear - by Randy Carson - July 21, 2015 at 9:22 am
RE: Hostage to fear - by robvalue - July 21, 2015 at 9:11 am
RE: Hostage to fear - by Randy Carson - July 21, 2015 at 9:26 am
RE: Hostage to fear - by robvalue - July 21, 2015 at 10:27 am
RE: Hostage to fear - by robvalue - July 21, 2015 at 3:05 pm
RE: Hostage to fear - by robvalue - July 22, 2015 at 1:05 am
RE: Hostage to fear - by robvalue - July 23, 2015 at 4:16 am
RE: Hostage to fear - by Redbeard The Pink - July 23, 2015 at 11:01 pm
RE: Hostage to fear - by Randy Carson - July 24, 2015 at 9:09 am
RE: Hostage to fear - by Redbeard The Pink - July 24, 2015 at 1:06 pm
RE: Hostage to fear - by Randy Carson - July 24, 2015 at 4:37 pm
RE: Hostage to fear - by Nope - July 24, 2015 at 5:03 pm
RE: Hostage to fear - by Spacetime - July 24, 2015 at 7:50 pm
RE: Hostage to fear - by Redbeard The Pink - July 24, 2015 at 11:51 pm
RE: Hostage to fear - by Randy Carson - July 25, 2015 at 7:25 am
RE: Hostage to fear - by Redbeard The Pink - July 26, 2015 at 1:59 pm
RE: Hostage to fear - by Randy Carson - July 26, 2015 at 3:30 pm
RE: Hostage to fear - by Redbeard The Pink - July 26, 2015 at 10:09 pm
RE: Hostage to fear - by robvalue - July 25, 2015 at 5:59 am
RE: Hostage to fear - by Randy Carson - July 25, 2015 at 7:30 am
RE: Hostage to fear - by robvalue - July 25, 2015 at 12:53 pm
RE: Hostage to fear - by Spacetime - July 25, 2015 at 9:38 pm
RE: Hostage to fear - by robvalue - July 25, 2015 at 9:52 pm
RE: Hostage to fear - by Randy Carson - July 25, 2015 at 10:01 pm
RE: Hostage to fear - by Iroscato - July 25, 2015 at 10:06 pm
RE: Hostage to fear - by Randy Carson - July 25, 2015 at 10:13 pm
RE: Hostage to fear - by Iroscato - July 25, 2015 at 10:26 pm
RE: Hostage to fear - by robvalue - July 25, 2015 at 10:16 pm
RE: Hostage to fear - by robvalue - July 28, 2015 at 6:24 am

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