RE: Open Letter To Christians
July 3, 2015 at 6:01 pm
(This post was last modified: July 3, 2015 at 6:05 pm by Godscreated.)
GC Wrote:You watch to much Hollywood drama for your info, the scriptures do not say Moses and Aaron burst, in before Pharaoh and the guards wouldn't allow such an intrusion, their lives depended on protecting Pharaoh.
ESQ Wrote:Moses and Aaron entered Pharaoh's place without permission, passing the guards in such a way that he was shocked that they'd made it to him. I actually went back and read the relevant scriptures before my last post to confirm this, so I know which parts of your desperate excuses are and are not present in the text; suffice it to say that I shan't be engaging with the self serving interpretations of a fantasist like you, and will be sticking to the actual scripture... which I had done in my last post.
Care to show me the verses that said Moses and Aaron did what you say.
Quote:Here's a break down of Pharaoh's denials and God's action towards them.
Exodus 5:2 .....I (Pharaoh) will not let the people of Israel go. This is Pharaoh's first refusal and nothing is said of God hardening his heart.
ESQ Wrote:Yes, and no evidence is offered either: Moses and Aaron just roll up and demand that he let their people go because of something they claim to have experienced, but Pharaoh had not. If I'd come up to you and demanded you do something based on the command of a god that I claim to exist, but you have no evidence for, would you do what I say?
Yes there is evidence, at least for those who understand the entire story, anytime God hardens Pharaoh's heart the scriptures say He does.
No I wouldn't, and I never said that Pharaoh would respond any differently than he did. for good reason I wouldn't believe you, I know my God and He's the only God, so you would not have anything to offer me. Moses and Aaron did as they were instructed, the demand actually came from God.
Quote:Moses was told by God He would harden Pharaoh's heart when Moses and Aaron meet with Pharaoh the second time and this is recorded in Exodus 7:13 Still Pharaoh's heart was hardened, and he would not listen to them, as the LORD said.
ESQ Wrote:So here's where god starts his magic brainwashing campaign to make it impossible for Pharaoh to obey god in any case.
This is your answer to the scripture I supplied, you call this reasonable logical disagreement I suppose.
Quote:This happened after the plague of gnats, Exodus 8:19 Then the magicians said to Pharaoh, "This is the finger of God." But Pharaoh's heart was hardened, and he would not listen to them, as the LORD had said. Nothing in this passage leads one to believe God had hardened his heart again.
ESQ Wrote:Nothing in the passage prior leads one to believe that god's heart-hardening was temporary, either. Nor that god had rescinded his brainwashing; this is just you making shit up that isn't in the text in order to excuse god, but neither of us has any evidentiary leg up in this case. The last thing we hear on this issue is "god hardened Pharaoh's heart," after all.
Every time God hardens Pharaoh's heart, the scriptures record it without question, why would God need to harden Pharaoh's heart over and over, once God hardened it it would remain that way and the scriptures would say, "because God had hardened his heart." Even you have admitted that God could harden his heart and it would remain that way, that is unless God relented.
I also see, so to better your argument, you left out the verse I posted where it says Pharaoh hardened his own heart, which by the way and as you know came after God hardened Pharaoh's heart the first time. Now how could Pharaoh harden his heart if God still had his heart hardened. Leaving out points in the argument is dishonest, especially those that go against your argument.
Quote:This happens after the plague of flies. Exodus 8:25 Then Pharaoh called Moses and Aaron and said, "Go, sacrifice to your God within the land." Then in Exodus 8:28 So Pharaoh said, "I will let you go to sacrifice to the LORD your God in the wilderness; only you must not go very far away. Plead for me. Here Pharaoh has started to relent showing God had not yet permanently hardened his heart.
ESQ Wrote:Or it could be Pharaoh desperately struggling against god's brainwashing because his rational mind has had sufficient evidence to change, but god won't let him. See? I can make things up that aren't present in the text too!
You make things up all the time, at least this time you admitted you made it up an it has no rational bases. I on the other hand have give evidence to what I have said, even though when you replied you left out the verse that shows Pharaoh hardened his own heart after God had the first time. I've also given reasonable thought and evidence that God relented and allowed Pharaoh the chance to change his mind because he had seen the great power of God. God gave him this chance because Pharaoh did not know who God was and God being just gave Pharaoh another and even more chances after he admitted to knowing God's great power. God set out to prove Pharaoh was a self centered man who cared more about his own self worth than his own people. God also set out to prove to Pharaoh and Egypt that He is the LORD God and would protect His people and had the power to free them. But none of this would have had to happen if Pharaoh had only relented to God's asking.
Have a good 4th weekend, I probably want be back until Monday.
GC
God loves those who believe and those who do not and the same goes for me, you have no choice in this matter. That puts the matter of total free will to rest.