(July 8, 2015 at 4:27 pm)Drich Wrote: An accurate exegesis of scriptural context is not limited to adjacent passages, but must also include other teachings on the subject. for example in this case when I said 'context' I was directly speaking to mat 7:9-11 and it's match in Luke 11:9 9 So I tell you, continue to ask, and God will give to you. Continue to search, and you will find. Continue to knock, and the door will open for you. 10 Yes, whoever continues to ask will receive. Whoever continues to look will find. And whoever continues to knock will have the door opened for them. 11 Do any of you have a son? What would you do if your son asked you for a fish? Would any father give him a snake? 12 Or, if he asked for an egg, would you give him a scorpion? Of course not! 13 Even you who are bad know how to give good things to your children. So surely your heavenly Father knows how to give the Holy Spirit to the people who ask him.”
Clearly when Jesus is preaching the sermon on the mount in mat 7 verse 9 He is pointing back to the larger/more complete teaching recorded in Luke 11. How do I dare say this? Because is it word for word minus the parable and the summary. You can't accept one version, and ignore an expanded teaching on the very same quote.
That translation about the holy spirit is a mere convenience for you. In the translation I quoted originally, it merely says "good gifts." There is no mention of the holy spirit. We'd have to go to the source texts to figure out which translation is closer, but it doesn't really matter because even then we could still go back and forth about which translation is more valid. Suffice it to say that, at best, this passage may or may not be talking about those who seek the holy spirit, but the rest of the passage seems to read as if it's talking about god'd gifts in general. You're simply adhering to the bent that is more convenient for your argument, which leaves me to do the same.
As for my "un-cited scholars," I'm talking about whoever it is that teaches the preachers I've been listening to since I was a child (which includes a wide range of speakers from various corners of the faith). Any time I've heard the aforementioned passages taught, the aforementioned interpretations have been the ones in play. One of the unfortunate things about ancient texts like these is that they're so easy to bend, warp, and simply mis-quote for the convenience of the argument at hand.
Verbatim from the mouth of Jesus (retranslated from a retranslation of a copy of a copy):
"Do not judge, or you too will be judged. For in the same way you judge others, you too will be judged, and with the measure you use, it will be measured to you. How can you see your brother's head up his ass when your own vision is darkened by your head being even further up your ass? How can you say to your brother, 'Get your head out of your ass,' when all the time your head is up your own ass? You hypocrite! First take your head out of your own ass, and then you will see clearly who has his head up his ass and who doesn't." Matthew 7:1-5 (also Luke 6: 41-42)
Also, I has a website: www.RedbeardThePink.com
"Do not judge, or you too will be judged. For in the same way you judge others, you too will be judged, and with the measure you use, it will be measured to you. How can you see your brother's head up his ass when your own vision is darkened by your head being even further up your ass? How can you say to your brother, 'Get your head out of your ass,' when all the time your head is up your own ass? You hypocrite! First take your head out of your own ass, and then you will see clearly who has his head up his ass and who doesn't." Matthew 7:1-5 (also Luke 6: 41-42)
Also, I has a website: www.RedbeardThePink.com