Hostage to fear

[Randy Carson]

Are you open to being convinced? Or do you just want me to throw out some more clay pigeons for you???

How's this then; we'll address one issue at a time, that way our argument can be linear and pertinent to the issues that I can be convinced on.  This will work if we both agree not to fork the conversation without granting the other's opinion/proofs the merit it would warrant at least in further discussion, while staying on topic.  Not addressing a single issue out of many does not suggest relent on the other person's part.  Surely we can both agree to that.

Let me start with how I would talk to someone in my own Church if we were having fellowship over beers following liturgy (as men often do at my Church);

The bible mentions belief as though it were a choice.  I've found that my Christian identity is wholly wrapped up in trying (desperately) to believe, when I simply have not been convinced.  A positive affirmation of belief "on" Christ Jesus would be a lie in my case... something that very doctrine prohibits.  What I do believe is that I've made tremendous effort in trying to believe, by investigating the faith.  Without deconstructing this paragraph, please address this over all point; If belief is a choice and there is evidence that this belief is convincing and rational, why hasn't this evidence rationally convinced me to believe?  Especially when I'm not ignorant to it... down to its most specific points.

Here... have the "talking stick".  lol

Thank you. And my apologies for not getting back to you sooner.

In some threads, I argue what I believe are basic historical and theological facts. This probably won't be one of those threads, because I don't think you need more facts. Fair enough?

In the OP of your "Hostage to Fear" thread, you wrote:

As I started to investigate my own religion, I began to cast out doctrines like hell... because you have a very difficult problem with theodicy if you hold to it. I then decided that the evil that occurs now is the most pressing issue if hell is out of the equation. What use is my God if He doesn't intervene? Therefore, God must not be a personal God.

I know the bible is not historically accurate, we can prove the documents are fables. I know we have no evidence for the suspension of physical laws to allow for the possibility of miracles. I know human biology doesn't allow for something like a virgin birth.

Your issues include:

The problem of evil.
The Bible is a collection of fables.
Supernatural miracles cannot occur.
Biology precludes virgin births and resurrections.

It sounds like you have everything figured out...there's not much I can say that you'll actually hear at this point. You're caught up in the white-hot passion of the newly converted (it goes both ways), so who am I to throw water onto the fire that's burning inside you? It could take years before it dies down to nothing but ashes. Only then...maybe...will you realize that the heart(h) has grown cold.

You also ask me not to deconstruct the paragraph above and to address the overall point. Okay, I just need an honest self-assessment:...and we can do this by PM if you prefer because there is going to be a LOT of static from other posters.

I gather from what you've written in your posts that you were striving mightily to please others (parents? spouse? other church members? the ideal you had of being a "good" parent?), but can you honestly say that you ever WANTED to be a follower of Christ?

Yes or no? Why or why not?