Simple question for Christians.

[Kingpin]

Thank you

Well yes, the golden rule. That's it. Morality can be refined down to that. You can say God tells you to use the golden rule, I can say it's obvious to me. You don't need much more than the golden rule.

I appreciate your replies, I rarely get a debate on here (with theists) that doesn't nosedive into nonsense very quickly.

As for the big questions, I am comfortable to say I don't know. I don't know where the universe came from. I don't know if there is any purpose to anything. I don't claim that there is any objective morality, and if there is, it's still subjective to God and I don't care about his opinion. If it amounts to the golden rule, then you're using the same standard as me but just making the extra assumption that God is somehow involved. Other Christians may also use the golden rule but interpret it differently.

I'm comfortable saying I don't know. And I would assume that you don't know either, but you've adopted a belief system which attempts to answer these questions. I don't find those answers compelling or necessary. I'd rather have no answer and keep looking, than settle for a made-up one.

I do understand a lot of people are uncomfortable saying "I don't know". It's one of the big pulls of religion.

Morality is man made and subjective, yes. No one has the final say. We decide together as a society. I understand you may not find it acceptable, but that is how it is. There is no alternative! What other alternative could there be, since theists can't agree either? God doesn't have the final say, because he doesn't do anything. A book from 2000 years ago only has so much worth in a discussion, even if he did write it.

If he wanted us all to have the same morality, then presumably we would. So either he has failed, or this is a faulty assumption.

I suppose you would say I get my golden rule from God too. In that case, it amounts to an unnecessary extra assumption, when the golden rule can easily be explained by evolution in a scientific way.

I don't know if we're going to make any more progress, but I enjoyed the debate, thank you! I appreciate being taken seriously

If you want to test your beliefs, the question remains: if God ordered you to kill your family, would you do it? Only one religious theist ever in my experience has answered this question without a dodge. For me it's easy, no. Get bent, God.

Rob, I truly appreciate that tasteful and honest discourse.  I can also say that I have rarely had debates with theists that don't nosedive in to nonsense

Saying I don't know is an acceptable answer.  I too do not know many things.  I believe certain things to be true based on the evidence presented to me, but if something(s) concrete to go against that evidence were to surface, I could of course believe something else and I hope you can honestly say the same.  

I believe there to be a God, you do not.  I respect your belief and can only hope you respect mine as well, neither makes us a bad person (at least by our definition of bad  ).

I will answer your question.  My answer would be no.  Because this request would go against the character of God.  I'm sure this response will bring up further debate and getting in to the OT God and telling Abraham to sacrifice his son, etc.  But it's pointless to get in to a theological debate if one party rejects the existence of the subject of the discussion.  

With that said, I appreciate the discussion and look forward to more.