Our server costs ~$56 per month to run. Please consider donating or becoming a Patron to help keep the site running. Help us gain new members by following us on Twitter and liking our page on Facebook!
Current time: December 18, 2024, 6:11 pm

Thread Rating:
  • 0 Vote(s) - 0 Average
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
Hostage to fear
RE: Hostage to fear
(July 17, 2015 at 9:10 pm)Spacetime Wrote: First, if you believe I'm being condescending in this post... please hold out for the end.  My intentions were never to "please various people"... they were to save my wife and children from hell.  I never sought to please anyone except this god of Holy Scripture. ...period.

Okay. And I will ask you some very direct questions...not to criticize or accuse but to understand what your experience has been.

Quote:I don't think you can agree with me on a point I have not made.  I never made the point that belief is a choice.  On the contrary, I've made my opinion of the opposite very clear.

Then I misunderstood you when you said that the Bible says that belief is a choice. I thought you were agreeing - even though you have struggled. But okay...I understand now.

Quote:Acting as though I believe is contrary to what the values of your faith teach.  Lying is a sin, no matter your target.  I was lying to myself when I said, "I believe in Christ Jesus".  I acted as though I really thought I believed for many years.  I simply quit lying, to 1) avoid sin in my quest for theosis 2) live an authentic human experience.

I wanted to believe in Christ (as portrayed in Holy Scripture) more than I wanted my own life, if it could be sacrificed so that my children would have the faith I don't ... for their salvation.  I wanted my wife and my kids to reach heaven... and knowingly lied to them about what I "believed" for that reason.  I deceived my family to meet the demands of a god.  At the end of every day, there was something wholly wrong with that... if my god be "good" and "truth".

It sounds like you haven't been honest with anyone...yourself, your family, or God...up to this point. So, it must be kinda refreshing to finally admit how you really feel!

Quote:As an anti-Calvinist, I could not just attribute my lack of faith to determinism.  A deep study of theodicy (through Scripture, history, and authoritative ancillary texts) answered all the questions I needed answers to.

The honest and exercised answer is, yes, I was willing to follow Christ to the bitter end.  And I appreciate you trying to understand my experiences ... throw me in the fire for being wrong, but I take it you're younger than most apologists and have a decent liberal education... your honest empathy gives you away.

I'm 55, and I went to Georgia Tech, so I had a very technical education. But thank you...I think.  Tongue

Just out of curiosity, what denomination were you? I can't remember if I already asked that...sorry. I'm not sure what an anti-Calvinist is...seems like that would be just about everyone else! Were you Baptist or Presbyterian? It sounds like your experience was kinda "performance-based" - trying to please God - and not really based on knowing God's love and forgiveness. Or am I wrong?

Also, was the problem of suffering the first chink in your "armor" or the last straw for you?
Reply



Messages In This Thread
Hostage to fear - by Spacetime - June 17, 2015 at 11:47 am
RE: Hostage to fear - by Nope - June 17, 2015 at 12:10 pm
RE: Hostage to fear - by Spacetime - June 17, 2015 at 12:25 pm
RE: Hostage to fear - by Minimalist - June 17, 2015 at 12:16 pm
RE: Hostage to fear - by LastPoet - June 17, 2015 at 12:40 pm
RE: Hostage to fear - by Spacetime - June 17, 2015 at 1:05 pm
RE: Hostage to fear - by Pyrrho - June 17, 2015 at 3:05 pm
RE: Hostage to fear - by The Grand Nudger - June 17, 2015 at 12:41 pm
RE: Hostage to fear - by Tonus - June 17, 2015 at 12:46 pm
RE: Hostage to fear - by Pyrrho - June 17, 2015 at 12:48 pm
RE: Hostage to fear - by robvalue - June 17, 2015 at 12:50 pm
RE: Hostage to fear - by robvalue - June 17, 2015 at 2:23 pm
RE: Hostage to fear - by Minimalist - June 17, 2015 at 2:53 pm
RE: Hostage to fear - by robvalue - June 17, 2015 at 2:59 pm
RE: Hostage to fear - by SteelCurtain - June 17, 2015 at 3:03 pm
RE: Hostage to fear - by Longhorn - June 17, 2015 at 3:07 pm
RE: Hostage to fear - by Spacetime - June 17, 2015 at 8:48 pm
RE: Hostage to fear - by Randy Carson - June 17, 2015 at 10:15 pm
RE: Hostage to fear - by Spacetime - June 18, 2015 at 12:58 am
RE: Hostage to fear - by Randy Carson - June 18, 2015 at 11:24 pm
RE: Hostage to fear - by Spacetime - June 19, 2015 at 5:26 pm
RE: Hostage to fear - by Randy Carson - June 20, 2015 at 9:29 pm
RE: Hostage to fear - by Randy Carson - June 20, 2015 at 11:00 pm
RE: Hostage to fear - by Spacetime - June 21, 2015 at 12:08 am
RE: Hostage to fear - by Randy Carson - June 21, 2015 at 12:50 am
RE: Hostage to fear - by Randy Carson - June 21, 2015 at 9:06 am
RE: Hostage to fear - by Randy Carson - June 21, 2015 at 9:33 am
RE: Hostage to fear - by Spacetime - June 21, 2015 at 4:54 pm
RE: Hostage to fear - by Randy Carson - June 23, 2015 at 5:56 pm
RE: Hostage to fear - by Simon Moon - June 23, 2015 at 6:11 pm
RE: Hostage to fear - by Randy Carson - June 23, 2015 at 6:18 pm
RE: Hostage to fear - by Simon Moon - June 24, 2015 at 3:14 pm
RE: Hostage to fear - by Spacetime - June 24, 2015 at 1:59 pm
RE: Hostage to fear - by Randy Carson - June 24, 2015 at 5:31 pm
RE: Hostage to fear - by Spacetime - June 24, 2015 at 5:48 pm
RE: Hostage to fear - by Randy Carson - June 24, 2015 at 7:29 pm
RE: Hostage to fear - by Spacetime - June 24, 2015 at 7:38 pm
RE: Hostage to fear - by Randy Carson - June 24, 2015 at 8:34 pm
RE: Hostage to fear - by Randy Carson - July 16, 2015 at 10:04 pm
RE: Hostage to fear - by Spacetime - July 16, 2015 at 10:18 pm
RE: Hostage to fear - by Randy Carson - July 16, 2015 at 10:40 pm
RE: Hostage to fear - by Nope - July 17, 2015 at 7:38 am
RE: Hostage to fear - by Spacetime - July 17, 2015 at 9:10 pm
RE: Hostage to fear - by Randy Carson - July 17, 2015 at 9:41 pm
RE: Hostage to fear - by Randy Carson - July 17, 2015 at 9:48 pm
RE: Hostage to fear - by Spacetime - July 17, 2015 at 10:19 pm
RE: Hostage to fear - by Randy Carson - July 18, 2015 at 7:50 pm
RE: Hostage to fear - by Nope - July 19, 2015 at 8:42 am
RE: Hostage to fear - by Randy Carson - July 19, 2015 at 11:49 am
RE: Hostage to fear - by Pyrrho - July 19, 2015 at 1:09 pm
RE: Hostage to fear - by Randy Carson - July 19, 2015 at 9:15 pm
RE: Hostage to fear - by Wyrd of Gawd - July 19, 2015 at 9:45 pm
RE: Hostage to fear - by Spacetime - July 19, 2015 at 6:38 pm
RE: Hostage to fear - by Randy Carson - July 19, 2015 at 9:27 pm
RE: Hostage to fear - by Spacetime - July 19, 2015 at 10:39 pm
RE: Hostage to fear - by Randy Carson - July 20, 2015 at 6:42 pm
RE: Hostage to fear - by Spacetime - July 20, 2015 at 7:38 pm
RE: Hostage to fear - by Pyrrho - July 20, 2015 at 9:34 pm
RE: Hostage to fear - by Randy Carson - July 21, 2015 at 7:53 am
RE: Hostage to fear - by Randy Carson - July 21, 2015 at 9:03 am
RE: Hostage to fear - by dyresand - July 19, 2015 at 11:57 am
RE: Hostage to fear - by Randy Carson - July 19, 2015 at 12:46 pm
RE: Hostage to fear - by dyresand - July 19, 2015 at 12:50 pm
RE: Hostage to fear - by dyresand - July 19, 2015 at 1:06 pm
RE: Hostage to fear - by Wyrd of Gawd - June 19, 2015 at 11:33 pm
RE: Hostage to fear - by Spacetime - June 20, 2015 at 12:02 am
RE: Hostage to fear - by Wyrd of Gawd - June 20, 2015 at 12:14 am
RE: Hostage to fear - by Randy Carson - June 20, 2015 at 11:15 pm
RE: Hostage to fear - by Minimalist - June 17, 2015 at 8:51 pm
RE: Hostage to fear - by Spacetime - June 17, 2015 at 9:09 pm
RE: Hostage to fear - by Minimalist - June 17, 2015 at 9:19 pm
RE: Hostage to fear - by ignoramus - June 17, 2015 at 9:39 pm
RE: Hostage to fear - by Exian - June 17, 2015 at 9:57 pm
RE: Hostage to fear - by Spacetime - June 17, 2015 at 10:53 pm
RE: Hostage to fear - by Randy Carson - June 17, 2015 at 10:06 pm
RE: Hostage to fear - by Spacetime - June 18, 2015 at 9:13 pm
RE: Hostage to fear - by Randy Carson - June 18, 2015 at 11:30 pm
RE: Hostage to fear - by Spacetime - June 19, 2015 at 6:33 am
RE: Hostage to fear - by Minimalist - June 17, 2015 at 10:22 pm
RE: Hostage to fear - by Jenny A - June 17, 2015 at 10:43 pm
RE: Hostage to fear - by Longhorn - June 18, 2015 at 1:08 am
RE: Hostage to fear - by The Grand Nudger - June 18, 2015 at 1:12 am
RE: Hostage to fear - by robvalue - June 18, 2015 at 3:56 am
RE: Hostage to fear - by The Grand Nudger - June 18, 2015 at 9:25 pm
RE: Hostage to fear - by Spacetime - June 18, 2015 at 9:31 pm
RE: Hostage to fear - by Jenny A - June 18, 2015 at 11:49 pm
RE: Hostage to fear - by The Grand Nudger - June 18, 2015 at 11:35 pm
RE: Hostage to fear - by Minimalist - June 18, 2015 at 11:56 pm
RE: Hostage to fear - by Randy Carson - June 19, 2015 at 12:44 am
RE: Hostage to fear - by Wyrd of Gawd - June 19, 2015 at 11:47 pm
RE: Hostage to fear - by Spacetime - June 20, 2015 at 12:17 am
RE: Hostage to fear - by The Grand Nudger - June 19, 2015 at 1:57 am
RE: Hostage to fear - by The Grand Nudger - June 19, 2015 at 4:50 am
RE: Hostage to fear - by Longhorn - June 19, 2015 at 7:16 am
RE: Hostage to fear - by Randy Carson - June 19, 2015 at 4:33 pm
RE: Hostage to fear - by Minimalist - June 19, 2015 at 8:58 pm
RE: Hostage to fear - by Pyrrho - June 19, 2015 at 9:40 pm
RE: Hostage to fear - by Spacetime - June 19, 2015 at 10:06 pm
RE: Hostage to fear - by Minimalist - June 19, 2015 at 10:28 pm
RE: Hostage to fear - by Spacetime - June 19, 2015 at 10:35 pm
RE: Hostage to fear - by robvalue - June 19, 2015 at 4:03 pm
RE: Hostage to fear - by Longhorn - June 19, 2015 at 4:38 pm
RE: Hostage to fear - by The Grand Nudger - June 19, 2015 at 4:52 pm
RE: Hostage to fear - by Randy Carson - June 19, 2015 at 8:09 pm
RE: Hostage to fear - by Spacetime - June 19, 2015 at 8:33 pm
RE: Hostage to fear - by Exian - June 19, 2015 at 7:25 pm
RE: Hostage to fear - by Spacetime - June 19, 2015 at 8:47 pm
RE: Hostage to fear - by The Grand Nudger - June 19, 2015 at 8:04 pm
RE: Hostage to fear - by The Grand Nudger - June 19, 2015 at 8:17 pm
RE: Hostage to fear - by The Grand Nudger - June 19, 2015 at 8:45 pm
RE: Hostage to fear - by Spacetime - June 19, 2015 at 9:31 pm
RE: Hostage to fear - by Minimalist - June 19, 2015 at 10:54 pm
RE: Hostage to fear - by The Grand Nudger - June 19, 2015 at 10:57 pm
RE: Hostage to fear - by Spacetime - June 19, 2015 at 11:50 pm
RE: Hostage to fear - by SteelCurtain - June 19, 2015 at 11:29 pm
RE: Hostage to fear - by Minimalist - June 20, 2015 at 12:01 am
RE: Hostage to fear - by Spacetime - June 20, 2015 at 12:20 am
RE: Hostage to fear - by The Grand Nudger - June 20, 2015 at 12:18 am
RE: Hostage to fear - by Wyrd of Gawd - June 20, 2015 at 12:35 am
RE: Hostage to fear - by The Grand Nudger - June 20, 2015 at 1:11 am
RE: Hostage to fear - by robvalue - June 20, 2015 at 2:30 am
RE: Hostage to fear - by Spacetime - June 20, 2015 at 9:30 pm
RE: Hostage to fear - by Randy Carson - June 20, 2015 at 11:44 pm
RE: Hostage to fear - by Randy Carson - June 21, 2015 at 1:58 am
RE: Hostage to fear - by Minimalist - June 21, 2015 at 2:07 am
RE: Hostage to fear - by robvalue - June 21, 2015 at 3:05 am
RE: Hostage to fear - by Spacetime - June 21, 2015 at 5:05 pm
RE: Hostage to fear - by Pyrrho - June 21, 2015 at 12:11 pm
RE: Hostage to fear - by robvalue - June 21, 2015 at 12:20 pm
RE: Hostage to fear - by Minimalist - June 21, 2015 at 5:01 pm
RE: Hostage to fear - by robvalue - June 22, 2015 at 4:21 am
RE: Hostage to fear - by Minimalist - June 24, 2015 at 2:18 pm
RE: Hostage to fear - by tonechaser77 - June 24, 2015 at 5:06 pm
RE: Hostage to fear - by iburnwater - June 24, 2015 at 8:46 pm
RE: Hostage to fear - by Spacetime - June 24, 2015 at 11:32 pm
RE: Hostage to fear - by robvalue - June 25, 2015 at 12:22 am
RE: Hostage to fear - by Pyrrho - June 25, 2015 at 9:55 am
RE: Hostage to fear - by robvalue - June 26, 2015 at 4:02 am
RE: Hostage to fear - by SuperEddy - June 26, 2015 at 9:54 am
RE: Hostage to fear - by ignoramus - June 25, 2015 at 1:49 am
RE: Hostage to fear - by dyresand - June 25, 2015 at 10:01 am
RE: Hostage to fear - by Spacetime - June 25, 2015 at 5:31 pm
RE: Hostage to fear - by robvalue - June 26, 2015 at 11:29 am
RE: Hostage to fear - by SuperEddy - June 27, 2015 at 8:03 pm
RE: Hostage to fear - by robvalue - June 28, 2015 at 2:05 am
RE: Hostage to fear - by Longhorn - July 17, 2015 at 4:44 am
RE: Hostage to fear - by ignoramus - July 17, 2015 at 5:14 am
RE: Hostage to fear - by ignoramus - July 17, 2015 at 7:50 am
RE: Hostage to fear - by Nope - July 17, 2015 at 8:15 am
RE: Hostage to fear - by Nope - July 17, 2015 at 8:11 am
RE: Hostage to fear - by robvalue - July 17, 2015 at 8:22 am
RE: Hostage to fear - by Godschild - July 17, 2015 at 10:51 pm
RE: Hostage to fear - by The Grand Nudger - July 17, 2015 at 11:31 pm
RE: Hostage to fear - by Godschild - July 20, 2015 at 6:05 pm
RE: Hostage to fear - by Crossless1 - July 20, 2015 at 6:07 pm
RE: Hostage to fear - by Spacetime - July 20, 2015 at 6:42 pm
RE: Hostage to fear - by Godschild - July 20, 2015 at 8:43 pm
RE: Hostage to fear - by Spacetime - July 20, 2015 at 9:13 pm
RE: Hostage to fear - by Randy Carson - July 21, 2015 at 7:24 am
RE: Hostage to fear - by Spacetime - July 21, 2015 at 2:54 pm
RE: Hostage to fear - by Randy Carson - July 22, 2015 at 4:53 pm
RE: Hostage to fear - by Randy Carson - July 22, 2015 at 5:02 pm
RE: Hostage to fear - by Spacetime - July 23, 2015 at 4:08 pm
RE: Hostage to fear - by Randy Carson - July 23, 2015 at 10:41 pm
RE: Hostage to fear - by Spacetime - July 24, 2015 at 4:18 pm
RE: Hostage to fear - by Randy Carson - July 24, 2015 at 4:34 pm
RE: Hostage to fear - by Spacetime - July 24, 2015 at 6:07 pm
RE: Hostage to fear - by Randy Carson - July 24, 2015 at 6:21 pm
RE: Hostage to fear - by Spacetime - July 24, 2015 at 7:45 pm
RE: Hostage to fear - by Randy Carson - July 24, 2015 at 8:08 pm
RE: Hostage to fear - by Randy Carson - July 24, 2015 at 8:10 pm
RE: Hostage to fear - by Spacetime - July 24, 2015 at 9:02 pm
RE: Hostage to fear - by Randy Carson - July 24, 2015 at 9:19 pm
RE: Hostage to fear - by Spacetime - July 24, 2015 at 9:23 pm
RE: Hostage to fear - by Randy Carson - July 24, 2015 at 9:26 pm
RE: Hostage to fear - by Spacetime - July 24, 2015 at 9:36 pm
RE: Hostage to fear - by Randy Carson - July 24, 2015 at 9:41 pm
RE: Hostage to fear - by Spacetime - July 24, 2015 at 9:48 pm
RE: Hostage to fear - by Randy Carson - July 24, 2015 at 10:00 pm
RE: Hostage to fear - by Spacetime - July 24, 2015 at 10:10 pm
RE: Hostage to fear - by Randy Carson - July 24, 2015 at 10:22 pm
RE: Hostage to fear - by Spacetime - July 25, 2015 at 9:36 pm
RE: Hostage to fear - by Ravenshire - July 24, 2015 at 10:58 pm
RE: Hostage to fear - by Spacetime - July 24, 2015 at 8:44 pm
RE: Hostage to fear - by Randy Carson - July 25, 2015 at 9:37 pm
RE: Hostage to fear - by Randy Carson - July 26, 2015 at 8:16 am
RE: Hostage to fear - by Spacetime - July 27, 2015 at 4:50 pm
RE: Hostage to fear - by Nope - July 24, 2015 at 5:06 pm
RE: Hostage to fear - by Nope - July 24, 2015 at 5:11 pm
RE: Hostage to fear - by Nope - July 23, 2015 at 4:23 pm
RE: Hostage to fear - by Randy Carson - July 21, 2015 at 9:21 am
RE: Hostage to fear - by Randy Carson - July 21, 2015 at 10:14 pm
RE: Hostage to fear - by Randy Carson - July 25, 2015 at 9:46 am
RE: Hostage to fear - by Godschild - July 23, 2015 at 12:10 am
RE: Hostage to fear - by Spacetime - July 23, 2015 at 5:28 pm
RE: Hostage to fear - by Godschild - July 24, 2015 at 3:25 pm
RE: Hostage to fear - by robvalue - July 19, 2015 at 11:24 am
RE: Hostage to fear - by robvalue - July 19, 2015 at 1:14 pm
RE: Hostage to fear - by Pyrrho - July 19, 2015 at 1:21 pm
RE: Hostage to fear - by robvalue - July 19, 2015 at 1:44 pm
RE: Hostage to fear - by The Grand Nudger - July 19, 2015 at 10:43 pm
RE: Hostage to fear - by Randy Carson - July 20, 2015 at 6:49 pm
RE: Hostage to fear - by The Grand Nudger - July 20, 2015 at 7:41 pm
RE: Hostage to fear - by The Grand Nudger - July 21, 2015 at 9:06 am
RE: Hostage to fear - by Randy Carson - July 21, 2015 at 9:22 am
RE: Hostage to fear - by robvalue - July 21, 2015 at 9:11 am
RE: Hostage to fear - by Randy Carson - July 21, 2015 at 9:26 am
RE: Hostage to fear - by robvalue - July 21, 2015 at 10:27 am
RE: Hostage to fear - by robvalue - July 21, 2015 at 3:05 pm
RE: Hostage to fear - by robvalue - July 22, 2015 at 1:05 am
RE: Hostage to fear - by robvalue - July 23, 2015 at 4:16 am
RE: Hostage to fear - by Redbeard The Pink - July 23, 2015 at 11:01 pm
RE: Hostage to fear - by Randy Carson - July 24, 2015 at 9:09 am
RE: Hostage to fear - by Redbeard The Pink - July 24, 2015 at 1:06 pm
RE: Hostage to fear - by Randy Carson - July 24, 2015 at 4:37 pm
RE: Hostage to fear - by Nope - July 24, 2015 at 5:03 pm
RE: Hostage to fear - by Spacetime - July 24, 2015 at 7:50 pm
RE: Hostage to fear - by Redbeard The Pink - July 24, 2015 at 11:51 pm
RE: Hostage to fear - by Randy Carson - July 25, 2015 at 7:25 am
RE: Hostage to fear - by Redbeard The Pink - July 26, 2015 at 1:59 pm
RE: Hostage to fear - by Randy Carson - July 26, 2015 at 3:30 pm
RE: Hostage to fear - by Redbeard The Pink - July 26, 2015 at 10:09 pm
RE: Hostage to fear - by robvalue - July 25, 2015 at 5:59 am
RE: Hostage to fear - by Randy Carson - July 25, 2015 at 7:30 am
RE: Hostage to fear - by robvalue - July 25, 2015 at 12:53 pm
RE: Hostage to fear - by Spacetime - July 25, 2015 at 9:38 pm
RE: Hostage to fear - by robvalue - July 25, 2015 at 9:52 pm
RE: Hostage to fear - by Randy Carson - July 25, 2015 at 10:01 pm
RE: Hostage to fear - by Iroscato - July 25, 2015 at 10:06 pm
RE: Hostage to fear - by Randy Carson - July 25, 2015 at 10:13 pm
RE: Hostage to fear - by Iroscato - July 25, 2015 at 10:26 pm
RE: Hostage to fear - by robvalue - July 25, 2015 at 10:16 pm
RE: Hostage to fear - by robvalue - July 28, 2015 at 6:24 am

Possibly Related Threads...
Thread Author Replies Views Last Post
  Do my parents fear that I'll leave the faith? Der/die AtheistIn 120 27713 January 14, 2018 at 2:55 am
Last Post: Abaddon_ire
  Ex-Christians: How do you lose your fear of hell? KiwiNFLFan 29 6657 November 20, 2017 at 2:07 pm
Last Post: purplepurpose
  Irational fear of hell still naggs me from time to time Arsoo 103 31154 November 9, 2017 at 1:53 pm
Last Post: downbeatplumb
  Fear your mind for it is hell urlawyer 17 4259 April 23, 2015 at 7:09 am
Last Post: robvalue
  Why do I need to fear God? clergyman 20 4479 June 16, 2014 at 2:38 pm
Last Post: Brian37
  Catholic diocese refuses to sell land out of fear of gay marriage, but... Esquilax 14 5283 April 15, 2014 at 12:13 am
Last Post: Esquilax
  Christians, prove your minds aren't molested by fear. Mudhammam 144 37606 March 8, 2014 at 4:32 am
Last Post: Mudhammam
  Why fear GOD? Castle 14 5389 September 12, 2011 at 10:38 am
Last Post: Castle
  God, Christianity, Control, & Fear (continued) ShnogTrip 2 2143 July 30, 2010 at 2:53 pm
Last Post: ShnogTrip
  God, Christianity, Control, & Fear ShnogTrip 75 37333 July 17, 2010 at 2:37 pm
Last Post: downbeatplumb



Users browsing this thread: 12 Guest(s)