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Hostage to fear
RE: Hostage to fear
(June 17, 2015 at 11:47 am)Spacetime Wrote: As I started to investigate my own religion, I began to cast out doctrines like hell... because you have a very difficult problem with theodicy if you hold to it.  I then decided that the evil that occurs now is the most pressing issue if hell is out of the equation.  What use is my God if He doesn't intervene?  Therefore, God must not be a personal God.

I know the bible is not historically accurate, we can prove the documents are fables.  I know we have no evidence for the suspension of physical laws to allow for the possibility of miracles.  I know human biology doesn't allow for something like a virgin birth.

I just can't seem to give it up.  If I've cast out the doctrine of hell, you'd say I have nothing to fear.  I've drawn out all that I cannot hold to if I am going to hold to that which is true, there's nothing left.  Absolutely nothing.  My fear is entirely irrational.

My own Grandmother threatened me with hell.  A girl I liked in high school... I asked her "So if I don't believe in Jesus, but am a good person, I'm still going to go to hell?"  When she said "I'm sorry, but yes."  I literally burst into tears in art class.

Perhaps it's those experiences that still hold me hostage to the Church.  My Grandmother sends my children books that I have to go through to weed out the crazy shit.  I'm embarrassed and ashamed to tell this story, but my eldest boy toasted the end of the world in front of my atheist parents during their last visit before supper.  The reaction he got sent him into tears.  I, of course, comforted him.  I teach my children that there is no hell, but then he clings to the return of Christ when this loving God comes back to destroy the Earth?

It's all complete and utter bullshit.  But I'm so f'ing scared to denounce it for my children's sake.  I am programmed to not say anything bad about Christ.  I literally can't... and I've even tried.  I can even tell you honestly that I love Christ (seriously, no joke).  But when I look at these things critically, there's nothing left for me to hold on to.

Church has been so good for my wife and children, though.  I'm afraid of what my wife will think of me.  I'm afraid I would be taking something good away from them if I am openly agnostic.  I'm not incredibly smart or anything, but they look to me for standards of goodness.

If I go to the clergy with these thoughts, I'm afraid I'm only going to get more of the same.  That's why I'm posting here.  I could use a little unbiased encouragement, maybe, from someone who has been through the same thing.

The Holy Spirit is working hard with you, you will need to look to God to solve this, depend on your wife and children, if you do away with hell you do away with justice. Take this as you may it's all I have to say unless you ask me questions.

GC
God loves those who believe and those who do not and the same goes for me, you have no choice in this matter. That puts the matter of total free will to rest.
Reply



Messages In This Thread
Hostage to fear - by Spacetime - June 17, 2015 at 11:47 am
RE: Hostage to fear - by Nope - June 17, 2015 at 12:10 pm
RE: Hostage to fear - by Spacetime - June 17, 2015 at 12:25 pm
RE: Hostage to fear - by Minimalist - June 17, 2015 at 12:16 pm
RE: Hostage to fear - by LastPoet - June 17, 2015 at 12:40 pm
RE: Hostage to fear - by Spacetime - June 17, 2015 at 1:05 pm
RE: Hostage to fear - by Pyrrho - June 17, 2015 at 3:05 pm
RE: Hostage to fear - by The Grand Nudger - June 17, 2015 at 12:41 pm
RE: Hostage to fear - by Tonus - June 17, 2015 at 12:46 pm
RE: Hostage to fear - by Pyrrho - June 17, 2015 at 12:48 pm
RE: Hostage to fear - by robvalue - June 17, 2015 at 12:50 pm
RE: Hostage to fear - by robvalue - June 17, 2015 at 2:23 pm
RE: Hostage to fear - by Minimalist - June 17, 2015 at 2:53 pm
RE: Hostage to fear - by robvalue - June 17, 2015 at 2:59 pm
RE: Hostage to fear - by SteelCurtain - June 17, 2015 at 3:03 pm
RE: Hostage to fear - by Longhorn - June 17, 2015 at 3:07 pm
RE: Hostage to fear - by Spacetime - June 17, 2015 at 8:48 pm
RE: Hostage to fear - by Randy Carson - June 17, 2015 at 10:15 pm
RE: Hostage to fear - by Spacetime - June 18, 2015 at 12:58 am
RE: Hostage to fear - by Randy Carson - June 18, 2015 at 11:24 pm
RE: Hostage to fear - by Spacetime - June 19, 2015 at 5:26 pm
RE: Hostage to fear - by Randy Carson - June 20, 2015 at 9:29 pm
RE: Hostage to fear - by Randy Carson - June 20, 2015 at 11:00 pm
RE: Hostage to fear - by Spacetime - June 21, 2015 at 12:08 am
RE: Hostage to fear - by Randy Carson - June 21, 2015 at 12:50 am
RE: Hostage to fear - by Randy Carson - June 21, 2015 at 9:06 am
RE: Hostage to fear - by Randy Carson - June 21, 2015 at 9:33 am
RE: Hostage to fear - by Spacetime - June 21, 2015 at 4:54 pm
RE: Hostage to fear - by Randy Carson - June 23, 2015 at 5:56 pm
RE: Hostage to fear - by Simon Moon - June 23, 2015 at 6:11 pm
RE: Hostage to fear - by Randy Carson - June 23, 2015 at 6:18 pm
RE: Hostage to fear - by Simon Moon - June 24, 2015 at 3:14 pm
RE: Hostage to fear - by Spacetime - June 24, 2015 at 1:59 pm
RE: Hostage to fear - by Randy Carson - June 24, 2015 at 5:31 pm
RE: Hostage to fear - by Spacetime - June 24, 2015 at 5:48 pm
RE: Hostage to fear - by Randy Carson - June 24, 2015 at 7:29 pm
RE: Hostage to fear - by Spacetime - June 24, 2015 at 7:38 pm
RE: Hostage to fear - by Randy Carson - June 24, 2015 at 8:34 pm
RE: Hostage to fear - by Randy Carson - July 16, 2015 at 10:04 pm
RE: Hostage to fear - by Spacetime - July 16, 2015 at 10:18 pm
RE: Hostage to fear - by Randy Carson - July 16, 2015 at 10:40 pm
RE: Hostage to fear - by Nope - July 17, 2015 at 7:38 am
RE: Hostage to fear - by Spacetime - July 17, 2015 at 9:10 pm
RE: Hostage to fear - by Randy Carson - July 17, 2015 at 9:41 pm
RE: Hostage to fear - by Randy Carson - July 17, 2015 at 9:48 pm
RE: Hostage to fear - by Spacetime - July 17, 2015 at 10:19 pm
RE: Hostage to fear - by Randy Carson - July 18, 2015 at 7:50 pm
RE: Hostage to fear - by Nope - July 19, 2015 at 8:42 am
RE: Hostage to fear - by Randy Carson - July 19, 2015 at 11:49 am
RE: Hostage to fear - by Pyrrho - July 19, 2015 at 1:09 pm
RE: Hostage to fear - by Randy Carson - July 19, 2015 at 9:15 pm
RE: Hostage to fear - by Wyrd of Gawd - July 19, 2015 at 9:45 pm
RE: Hostage to fear - by Spacetime - July 19, 2015 at 6:38 pm
RE: Hostage to fear - by Randy Carson - July 19, 2015 at 9:27 pm
RE: Hostage to fear - by Spacetime - July 19, 2015 at 10:39 pm
RE: Hostage to fear - by Randy Carson - July 20, 2015 at 6:42 pm
RE: Hostage to fear - by Spacetime - July 20, 2015 at 7:38 pm
RE: Hostage to fear - by Pyrrho - July 20, 2015 at 9:34 pm
RE: Hostage to fear - by Randy Carson - July 21, 2015 at 7:53 am
RE: Hostage to fear - by Randy Carson - July 21, 2015 at 9:03 am
RE: Hostage to fear - by dyresand - July 19, 2015 at 11:57 am
RE: Hostage to fear - by Randy Carson - July 19, 2015 at 12:46 pm
RE: Hostage to fear - by dyresand - July 19, 2015 at 12:50 pm
RE: Hostage to fear - by dyresand - July 19, 2015 at 1:06 pm
RE: Hostage to fear - by Wyrd of Gawd - June 19, 2015 at 11:33 pm
RE: Hostage to fear - by Spacetime - June 20, 2015 at 12:02 am
RE: Hostage to fear - by Wyrd of Gawd - June 20, 2015 at 12:14 am
RE: Hostage to fear - by Randy Carson - June 20, 2015 at 11:15 pm
RE: Hostage to fear - by Minimalist - June 17, 2015 at 8:51 pm
RE: Hostage to fear - by Spacetime - June 17, 2015 at 9:09 pm
RE: Hostage to fear - by Minimalist - June 17, 2015 at 9:19 pm
RE: Hostage to fear - by ignoramus - June 17, 2015 at 9:39 pm
RE: Hostage to fear - by Exian - June 17, 2015 at 9:57 pm
RE: Hostage to fear - by Spacetime - June 17, 2015 at 10:53 pm
RE: Hostage to fear - by Randy Carson - June 17, 2015 at 10:06 pm
RE: Hostage to fear - by Spacetime - June 18, 2015 at 9:13 pm
RE: Hostage to fear - by Randy Carson - June 18, 2015 at 11:30 pm
RE: Hostage to fear - by Spacetime - June 19, 2015 at 6:33 am
RE: Hostage to fear - by Minimalist - June 17, 2015 at 10:22 pm
RE: Hostage to fear - by Jenny A - June 17, 2015 at 10:43 pm
RE: Hostage to fear - by Longhorn - June 18, 2015 at 1:08 am
RE: Hostage to fear - by The Grand Nudger - June 18, 2015 at 1:12 am
RE: Hostage to fear - by robvalue - June 18, 2015 at 3:56 am
RE: Hostage to fear - by The Grand Nudger - June 18, 2015 at 9:25 pm
RE: Hostage to fear - by Spacetime - June 18, 2015 at 9:31 pm
RE: Hostage to fear - by Jenny A - June 18, 2015 at 11:49 pm
RE: Hostage to fear - by The Grand Nudger - June 18, 2015 at 11:35 pm
RE: Hostage to fear - by Minimalist - June 18, 2015 at 11:56 pm
RE: Hostage to fear - by Randy Carson - June 19, 2015 at 12:44 am
RE: Hostage to fear - by Wyrd of Gawd - June 19, 2015 at 11:47 pm
RE: Hostage to fear - by Spacetime - June 20, 2015 at 12:17 am
RE: Hostage to fear - by The Grand Nudger - June 19, 2015 at 1:57 am
RE: Hostage to fear - by The Grand Nudger - June 19, 2015 at 4:50 am
RE: Hostage to fear - by Longhorn - June 19, 2015 at 7:16 am
RE: Hostage to fear - by Randy Carson - June 19, 2015 at 4:33 pm
RE: Hostage to fear - by Minimalist - June 19, 2015 at 8:58 pm
RE: Hostage to fear - by Pyrrho - June 19, 2015 at 9:40 pm
RE: Hostage to fear - by Spacetime - June 19, 2015 at 10:06 pm
RE: Hostage to fear - by Minimalist - June 19, 2015 at 10:28 pm
RE: Hostage to fear - by Spacetime - June 19, 2015 at 10:35 pm
RE: Hostage to fear - by robvalue - June 19, 2015 at 4:03 pm
RE: Hostage to fear - by Longhorn - June 19, 2015 at 4:38 pm
RE: Hostage to fear - by The Grand Nudger - June 19, 2015 at 4:52 pm
RE: Hostage to fear - by Randy Carson - June 19, 2015 at 8:09 pm
RE: Hostage to fear - by Spacetime - June 19, 2015 at 8:33 pm
RE: Hostage to fear - by Exian - June 19, 2015 at 7:25 pm
RE: Hostage to fear - by Spacetime - June 19, 2015 at 8:47 pm
RE: Hostage to fear - by The Grand Nudger - June 19, 2015 at 8:04 pm
RE: Hostage to fear - by The Grand Nudger - June 19, 2015 at 8:17 pm
RE: Hostage to fear - by The Grand Nudger - June 19, 2015 at 8:45 pm
RE: Hostage to fear - by Spacetime - June 19, 2015 at 9:31 pm
RE: Hostage to fear - by Minimalist - June 19, 2015 at 10:54 pm
RE: Hostage to fear - by The Grand Nudger - June 19, 2015 at 10:57 pm
RE: Hostage to fear - by Spacetime - June 19, 2015 at 11:50 pm
RE: Hostage to fear - by SteelCurtain - June 19, 2015 at 11:29 pm
RE: Hostage to fear - by Minimalist - June 20, 2015 at 12:01 am
RE: Hostage to fear - by Spacetime - June 20, 2015 at 12:20 am
RE: Hostage to fear - by The Grand Nudger - June 20, 2015 at 12:18 am
RE: Hostage to fear - by Wyrd of Gawd - June 20, 2015 at 12:35 am
RE: Hostage to fear - by The Grand Nudger - June 20, 2015 at 1:11 am
RE: Hostage to fear - by robvalue - June 20, 2015 at 2:30 am
RE: Hostage to fear - by Spacetime - June 20, 2015 at 9:30 pm
RE: Hostage to fear - by Randy Carson - June 20, 2015 at 11:44 pm
RE: Hostage to fear - by Randy Carson - June 21, 2015 at 1:58 am
RE: Hostage to fear - by Minimalist - June 21, 2015 at 2:07 am
RE: Hostage to fear - by robvalue - June 21, 2015 at 3:05 am
RE: Hostage to fear - by Spacetime - June 21, 2015 at 5:05 pm
RE: Hostage to fear - by Pyrrho - June 21, 2015 at 12:11 pm
RE: Hostage to fear - by robvalue - June 21, 2015 at 12:20 pm
RE: Hostage to fear - by Minimalist - June 21, 2015 at 5:01 pm
RE: Hostage to fear - by robvalue - June 22, 2015 at 4:21 am
RE: Hostage to fear - by Minimalist - June 24, 2015 at 2:18 pm
RE: Hostage to fear - by tonechaser77 - June 24, 2015 at 5:06 pm
RE: Hostage to fear - by iburnwater - June 24, 2015 at 8:46 pm
RE: Hostage to fear - by Spacetime - June 24, 2015 at 11:32 pm
RE: Hostage to fear - by robvalue - June 25, 2015 at 12:22 am
RE: Hostage to fear - by Pyrrho - June 25, 2015 at 9:55 am
RE: Hostage to fear - by robvalue - June 26, 2015 at 4:02 am
RE: Hostage to fear - by SuperEddy - June 26, 2015 at 9:54 am
RE: Hostage to fear - by ignoramus - June 25, 2015 at 1:49 am
RE: Hostage to fear - by dyresand - June 25, 2015 at 10:01 am
RE: Hostage to fear - by Spacetime - June 25, 2015 at 5:31 pm
RE: Hostage to fear - by robvalue - June 26, 2015 at 11:29 am
RE: Hostage to fear - by SuperEddy - June 27, 2015 at 8:03 pm
RE: Hostage to fear - by robvalue - June 28, 2015 at 2:05 am
RE: Hostage to fear - by Longhorn - July 17, 2015 at 4:44 am
RE: Hostage to fear - by ignoramus - July 17, 2015 at 5:14 am
RE: Hostage to fear - by ignoramus - July 17, 2015 at 7:50 am
RE: Hostage to fear - by Nope - July 17, 2015 at 8:15 am
RE: Hostage to fear - by Nope - July 17, 2015 at 8:11 am
RE: Hostage to fear - by robvalue - July 17, 2015 at 8:22 am
RE: Hostage to fear - by Godschild - July 17, 2015 at 10:51 pm
RE: Hostage to fear - by The Grand Nudger - July 17, 2015 at 11:31 pm
RE: Hostage to fear - by Godschild - July 20, 2015 at 6:05 pm
RE: Hostage to fear - by Crossless1 - July 20, 2015 at 6:07 pm
RE: Hostage to fear - by Spacetime - July 20, 2015 at 6:42 pm
RE: Hostage to fear - by Godschild - July 20, 2015 at 8:43 pm
RE: Hostage to fear - by Spacetime - July 20, 2015 at 9:13 pm
RE: Hostage to fear - by Randy Carson - July 21, 2015 at 7:24 am
RE: Hostage to fear - by Spacetime - July 21, 2015 at 2:54 pm
RE: Hostage to fear - by Randy Carson - July 22, 2015 at 4:53 pm
RE: Hostage to fear - by Randy Carson - July 22, 2015 at 5:02 pm
RE: Hostage to fear - by Spacetime - July 23, 2015 at 4:08 pm
RE: Hostage to fear - by Randy Carson - July 23, 2015 at 10:41 pm
RE: Hostage to fear - by Spacetime - July 24, 2015 at 4:18 pm
RE: Hostage to fear - by Randy Carson - July 24, 2015 at 4:34 pm
RE: Hostage to fear - by Spacetime - July 24, 2015 at 6:07 pm
RE: Hostage to fear - by Randy Carson - July 24, 2015 at 6:21 pm
RE: Hostage to fear - by Spacetime - July 24, 2015 at 7:45 pm
RE: Hostage to fear - by Randy Carson - July 24, 2015 at 8:08 pm
RE: Hostage to fear - by Randy Carson - July 24, 2015 at 8:10 pm
RE: Hostage to fear - by Spacetime - July 24, 2015 at 9:02 pm
RE: Hostage to fear - by Randy Carson - July 24, 2015 at 9:19 pm
RE: Hostage to fear - by Spacetime - July 24, 2015 at 9:23 pm
RE: Hostage to fear - by Randy Carson - July 24, 2015 at 9:26 pm
RE: Hostage to fear - by Spacetime - July 24, 2015 at 9:36 pm
RE: Hostage to fear - by Randy Carson - July 24, 2015 at 9:41 pm
RE: Hostage to fear - by Spacetime - July 24, 2015 at 9:48 pm
RE: Hostage to fear - by Randy Carson - July 24, 2015 at 10:00 pm
RE: Hostage to fear - by Spacetime - July 24, 2015 at 10:10 pm
RE: Hostage to fear - by Randy Carson - July 24, 2015 at 10:22 pm
RE: Hostage to fear - by Spacetime - July 25, 2015 at 9:36 pm
RE: Hostage to fear - by Ravenshire - July 24, 2015 at 10:58 pm
RE: Hostage to fear - by Spacetime - July 24, 2015 at 8:44 pm
RE: Hostage to fear - by Randy Carson - July 25, 2015 at 9:37 pm
RE: Hostage to fear - by Randy Carson - July 26, 2015 at 8:16 am
RE: Hostage to fear - by Spacetime - July 27, 2015 at 4:50 pm
RE: Hostage to fear - by Nope - July 24, 2015 at 5:06 pm
RE: Hostage to fear - by Nope - July 24, 2015 at 5:11 pm
RE: Hostage to fear - by Nope - July 23, 2015 at 4:23 pm
RE: Hostage to fear - by Randy Carson - July 21, 2015 at 9:21 am
RE: Hostage to fear - by Randy Carson - July 21, 2015 at 10:14 pm
RE: Hostage to fear - by Randy Carson - July 25, 2015 at 9:46 am
RE: Hostage to fear - by Godschild - July 23, 2015 at 12:10 am
RE: Hostage to fear - by Spacetime - July 23, 2015 at 5:28 pm
RE: Hostage to fear - by Godschild - July 24, 2015 at 3:25 pm
RE: Hostage to fear - by robvalue - July 19, 2015 at 11:24 am
RE: Hostage to fear - by robvalue - July 19, 2015 at 1:14 pm
RE: Hostage to fear - by Pyrrho - July 19, 2015 at 1:21 pm
RE: Hostage to fear - by robvalue - July 19, 2015 at 1:44 pm
RE: Hostage to fear - by The Grand Nudger - July 19, 2015 at 10:43 pm
RE: Hostage to fear - by Randy Carson - July 20, 2015 at 6:49 pm
RE: Hostage to fear - by The Grand Nudger - July 20, 2015 at 7:41 pm
RE: Hostage to fear - by The Grand Nudger - July 21, 2015 at 9:06 am
RE: Hostage to fear - by Randy Carson - July 21, 2015 at 9:22 am
RE: Hostage to fear - by robvalue - July 21, 2015 at 9:11 am
RE: Hostage to fear - by Randy Carson - July 21, 2015 at 9:26 am
RE: Hostage to fear - by robvalue - July 21, 2015 at 10:27 am
RE: Hostage to fear - by robvalue - July 21, 2015 at 3:05 pm
RE: Hostage to fear - by robvalue - July 22, 2015 at 1:05 am
RE: Hostage to fear - by robvalue - July 23, 2015 at 4:16 am
RE: Hostage to fear - by Redbeard The Pink - July 23, 2015 at 11:01 pm
RE: Hostage to fear - by Randy Carson - July 24, 2015 at 9:09 am
RE: Hostage to fear - by Redbeard The Pink - July 24, 2015 at 1:06 pm
RE: Hostage to fear - by Randy Carson - July 24, 2015 at 4:37 pm
RE: Hostage to fear - by Nope - July 24, 2015 at 5:03 pm
RE: Hostage to fear - by Spacetime - July 24, 2015 at 7:50 pm
RE: Hostage to fear - by Redbeard The Pink - July 24, 2015 at 11:51 pm
RE: Hostage to fear - by Randy Carson - July 25, 2015 at 7:25 am
RE: Hostage to fear - by Redbeard The Pink - July 26, 2015 at 1:59 pm
RE: Hostage to fear - by Randy Carson - July 26, 2015 at 3:30 pm
RE: Hostage to fear - by Redbeard The Pink - July 26, 2015 at 10:09 pm
RE: Hostage to fear - by robvalue - July 25, 2015 at 5:59 am
RE: Hostage to fear - by Randy Carson - July 25, 2015 at 7:30 am
RE: Hostage to fear - by robvalue - July 25, 2015 at 12:53 pm
RE: Hostage to fear - by Spacetime - July 25, 2015 at 9:38 pm
RE: Hostage to fear - by robvalue - July 25, 2015 at 9:52 pm
RE: Hostage to fear - by Randy Carson - July 25, 2015 at 10:01 pm
RE: Hostage to fear - by Iroscato - July 25, 2015 at 10:06 pm
RE: Hostage to fear - by Randy Carson - July 25, 2015 at 10:13 pm
RE: Hostage to fear - by Iroscato - July 25, 2015 at 10:26 pm
RE: Hostage to fear - by robvalue - July 25, 2015 at 10:16 pm
RE: Hostage to fear - by robvalue - July 28, 2015 at 6:24 am

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