(July 19, 2015 at 9:27 pm)Randy Carson Wrote: I'm sure that you make the declaration, but I do not agree that you are correct. On what basis are you able to make this judgment? Doesn't it come down to this:
If I were God, I would do things differently.
God would agree with me if he existed.
Things are not different.
Therefore, God does not exist.
But the reality is:
If you were God, you would do things differently.
Things are not different.
Therefore, you are not God.
And that's about all that we can say about that.
God did not create us with this fallen nature or "to have" it. However, he gave us free will which necessitates the potential that we will do evil. You cannot really love if you cannot really hate. However, it was man who CHOSE to actualize the potential for evil. Not God.
Right. Because in your short-term view (and 10 years is but the blink of an eye), God should take away our suffering and pain. But this is because you cannot see the long view that God sees. You are simply not in a position to know how the suffering we experience in this life prepares us for what lies ahead.
Sola scriptura and the absolute right to private judgment. These are the errors that led to the 50,000 denominations of which you speak. But this is not how Jesus established His true Church which is founded upon Sacred Scripture, Sacred Tradition and the Magisterium of the Church.
Oh, and you made no effort to interact with my fine tuning of evidence comments.
Fine tuning is not an argument. Surely you're already aware of the destruction of that argument scientifically. The same math meant to answer critiques of the theist position in the arena of cosmology are the exact same arguments for the existence of anything through "irreducible complexity". This is elementary. And this is not meant to be insulting, but this isn't something even in the ballpark for the things I'm arguing from. I talk about theodicy, which has no clear answer in theism, and you're bringing up the argument for the existence of a god.
Oh, and you made no effort to counteract my argument from scripture regarding the evidence that my "kind" knows the difference between good and evil, and, therefore has the ability to declare your god evil.
Sorry, mate, but once again, I'm finding myself back at the position of really wanting to see your position as coming from an educated one (in theology, cosmology, etc). But the more I talk to you, the more I see you don't even grasp the best of your position's apologetics. I could come up with better arguments than you have so far regarding theodicy.
You've still not answered me on the issue of the euthyphro dilemma. The bear illustration cannot be the best thing you could have come up with. I refuse to believe you're on an atheist forum ignorant of the most convincing arguments against mine from a theist's point of view... and refusing to use them.
I'm sorry to be insulting (and so honest)... but you're either ignorant or believe your arguments are better than those that were authored 1600 years ago by the most convincing sources that I've even brought to you... the early church fathers. You've not once quoted their understanding of scripture and you claim to be catholic. I am really beginning to question your catholicism if you've not read the Saints or the fathers. Come to think of it... you've only ever quoted the catechism, and not its sources.
