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should america support Israel?
RE: should america support Israel?
(August 13, 2014 at 4:28 pm)Thumpalumpacus Wrote:
(August 11, 2014 at 9:45 am)little_monkey Wrote: Sure, again one possible outcome that I have admitted to, which you are clearly focussed on because you are looking at this through your emotions rather than logic.

Noi. I've addressed your suggested policy on the logical level as well, when I pointed out that such a policy is unlikely to be effective given the absence of a strong central government which can compel obedience to surrender/cease-fire agreements. Recent events have supporteed my points.

Recent events completely disprove your point: there were not ONE but TWO 72-hr truces, and in both cases, no rockets were fired, indicating without any doubt that Hamas has complete control over its fighters in Gaza.

Quote:
(August 11, 2014 at 9:45 am)little_monkey Wrote: You can ask ten people on what constitute morality, and you'll get hundred opinions on what morality is. Are you proposing that you have an absolute monopoly on what constitutes morality?

No, but I certainly have my opinion. My opinion is that killing unarmed civilians in wartime is immoral. Not surprisingly, it's a pretty widely-shared view.

My opinion is that a country has a right to defend. To quote you, Not surprisingly, it's a pretty widely-shared view.


Quote:And to answer the question you're about to ask, yes, parking your rocket batteries in civilian areas so that civilians get killed is immoral, as well.

And Israel has every right to answer that by bombing, even though civilians are going to get killed as a result of Hamas decision to shield its fighters among the population. Those civilian deaths are entirely Hamas responsibility.



Quote:
(August 11, 2014 at 9:45 am)little_monkey Wrote: Secondly, at the times, the reason behind that bombing was to send a clear message to the German population that they were losing the war, and only an unconditional surrender would be acceptable for two reasons: 1) the Nazis had vowed to fight to the last man - they were even enlisted young boys as young as 10 year old to fight; 2) in WW1, many Germans, including the Nazis, firmly believed that Germany had not lost the war as little destruction had taken place on German soil. So this time in WW2, the Allies were making sure that their message was clear. Debating whether that was moral or not is an exercise in futility.

I disagree, in part, and I agree, in part. Forgive me while I go into it a bit:

The German population had already by that time a clear knowledge that they were losing the war. They knew this in 1944, when the Russians marched into Prussia and the Western Allies came up upon the Rhine. They knew it when they viewed the bombed-out centers of Cologne, Hamburg, Lubeck, Schweinfurt, and Berlin itself. Indeed, the very fact that the Germans were indeed impressing young boys from the HJ into battle told the civilians exactly how desperate matters had become. So firebombing Dresden was not necessary to "send a message".

I guess that Dresden had factories producing weapons for Germany had nothing to do with it.

Quote:
(August 11, 2014 at 9:45 am)little_monkey Wrote: The alternative - invading Japan - could have produced more fatalities both on the US and Japanese sides. Thinking that this altenative is more moral is a futile debate.

That wasn't the only alternative. The submarine/mining blockade was dragging the Japanese economy to a halt very quickly by August of 1945.

And forget that during the war, the Japanese were quite willing to Kamikaze (Stat: 3,860 kamikaze pilots died in that war).




Quote:
(August 11, 2014 at 9:45 am)little_monkey Wrote: Get your facts straightened: the PA rules over the West Bank; Hamas rules over Gaza. And Hamas has clearly demonstrated it has complete control over its "extremists" in Gaza.

So what makes you think that Hamas can compel those extremists to abandon their position after the bombing of civilians?

See above answer.


Quote:
(August 11, 2014 at 9:45 am)little_monkey Wrote: That you can't get many of the facts straight proves otherwise.

That I've made one mistake here doesn't undermine my point. That you cannot view the problem from any lens other than your own does, however, make your views irreparably biased, and unworthy of further consideration.

No one is putting a gun to your head and forcing you to post. You're the one who jumped in and started to spew your left-wing Palestinian apology.
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Messages In This Thread
should america support Israel? - by shortbusgangsta3 - June 30, 2014 at 12:10 pm
RE: should america support Israel? - by The Grand Nudger - June 30, 2014 at 12:17 pm
RE: should america support Israel? - by Mudhammam - June 30, 2014 at 12:23 pm
RE: should america support Israel? - by Jaysyn - July 2, 2014 at 10:17 am
RE: should america support Israel? - by Minimalist - June 30, 2014 at 12:47 pm
RE: should america support Israel? - by shortbusgangsta3 - June 30, 2014 at 12:49 pm
RE: should america support Israel? - by Minimalist - June 30, 2014 at 2:19 pm
RE: should america support Israel? - by bberryhill0 - July 1, 2014 at 12:01 pm
RE: should america support Israel? - by Anomalocaris - July 1, 2014 at 1:06 pm
RE: should america support Israel? - by bberryhill0 - July 1, 2014 at 1:38 pm
RE: should america support Israel? - by Lek - July 1, 2014 at 1:45 pm
RE: should america support Israel? - by Anomalocaris - July 1, 2014 at 2:54 pm
RE: should america support Israel? - by Lek - July 1, 2014 at 3:28 pm
RE: should america support Israel? - by bberryhill0 - July 1, 2014 at 1:47 pm
RE: should america support Israel? - by Minimalist - July 1, 2014 at 4:29 pm
RE: should america support Israel? - by psychoslice - July 1, 2014 at 8:35 pm
RE: should america support Israel? - by Cato - July 1, 2014 at 8:56 pm
RE: should america support Israel? - by psychoslice - July 1, 2014 at 9:26 pm
RE: should america support Israel? - by Anomalocaris - July 1, 2014 at 9:03 pm
RE: should america support Israel? - by Anomalocaris - July 2, 2014 at 1:49 am
RE: should america support Israel? - by ignoramus - July 1, 2014 at 10:09 pm
RE: should america support Israel? - by professor - July 1, 2014 at 10:21 pm
RE: should america support Israel? - by Mudhammam - July 2, 2014 at 9:57 am
Re: should america support Israel? - by bberryhill0 - July 2, 2014 at 12:44 am
RE: should america support Israel? - by bberryhill0 - July 2, 2014 at 3:21 am
RE: should america support Israel? - by Anomalocaris - July 2, 2014 at 12:31 pm
RE: should america support Israel? - by Thumpalumpacus - July 2, 2014 at 4:39 pm
RE: should america support Israel? - by Wyrd of Gawd - July 5, 2014 at 4:28 am
RE: should america support Israel? - by Anomalocaris - July 5, 2014 at 3:02 pm
RE: should america support Israel? - by Cato - July 5, 2014 at 9:18 am
RE: should america support Israel? - by Anomalocaris - July 5, 2014 at 10:51 am
Re: RE: should america support Israel? - by bberryhill0 - July 5, 2014 at 12:59 pm
RE: should america support Israel? - by Cato - July 9, 2014 at 3:28 pm
RE: should america support Israel? - by A Theist - July 9, 2014 at 7:04 pm
RE: should america support Israel? - by bberryhill0 - July 9, 2014 at 6:28 pm
RE: should america support Israel? - by Amalynne0 - July 9, 2014 at 6:46 pm
RE: should america support Israel? - by bberryhill0 - July 9, 2014 at 7:04 pm
RE: should america support Israel? - by A Theist - July 9, 2014 at 7:31 pm
RE: should america support Israel? - by Minimalist - July 9, 2014 at 7:40 pm
RE: should america support Israel? - by Anomalocaris - July 10, 2014 at 9:48 am
RE: should america support Israel? - by A Theist - July 11, 2014 at 12:06 pm
RE: should america support Israel? - by bberryhill0 - July 9, 2014 at 8:30 pm
RE: should america support Israel? - by Cato - July 10, 2014 at 5:35 am
RE: should america support Israel? - by ShaMan - July 10, 2014 at 3:01 pm
RE: should america support Israel? - by Bad Writer - July 10, 2014 at 2:54 am
RE: should america support Israel? - by Lek - July 10, 2014 at 2:53 pm
RE: should america support Israel? - by bberryhill0 - July 10, 2014 at 3:14 pm
RE: should america support Israel? - by Cato - July 10, 2014 at 3:21 pm
RE: should america support Israel? - by bberryhill0 - July 10, 2014 at 3:23 pm
RE: should america support Israel? - by Anomalocaris - July 10, 2014 at 3:27 pm
RE: should america support Israel? - by Jackalope - July 10, 2014 at 3:51 pm
RE: should america support Israel? - by bberryhill0 - July 10, 2014 at 3:41 pm
RE: should america support Israel? - by Anomalocaris - July 10, 2014 at 4:03 pm
RE: should america support Israel? - by bberryhill0 - July 10, 2014 at 4:31 pm
RE: should america support Israel? - by Cato - July 11, 2014 at 12:19 pm
RE: should america support Israel? - by Minimalist - July 11, 2014 at 12:20 pm
RE: should america support Israel? - by A Theist - July 11, 2014 at 12:47 pm
RE: should america support Israel? - by Minimalist - July 11, 2014 at 2:05 pm
RE: should america support Israel? - by A Theist - July 11, 2014 at 3:03 pm
RE: should america support Israel? - by Bad Writer - July 11, 2014 at 5:40 pm
RE: should america support Israel? - by A Theist - July 11, 2014 at 6:00 pm
RE: should america support Israel? - by Bad Writer - July 11, 2014 at 6:18 pm
RE: should america support Israel? - by A Theist - July 11, 2014 at 9:39 pm
RE: should america support Israel? - by Bad Writer - July 11, 2014 at 10:06 pm
RE: should america support Israel? - by A Theist - July 11, 2014 at 10:24 pm
Re: RE: should america support Israel? - by bberryhill0 - July 11, 2014 at 2:28 pm
RE: should america support Israel? - by Cato - July 11, 2014 at 7:41 pm
RE: should america support Israel? - by Thumpalumpacus - July 11, 2014 at 6:26 pm
RE: should america support Israel? - by CristW - July 11, 2014 at 6:52 pm
RE: should america support Israel? - by Bad Writer - July 11, 2014 at 11:11 pm
RE: should america support Israel? - by A Theist - July 12, 2014 at 10:51 am
RE: should america support Israel? - by Bad Writer - July 12, 2014 at 11:19 am
RE: should america support Israel? - by bberryhill0 - July 12, 2014 at 12:32 pm
RE: should america support Israel? - by A Theist - July 12, 2014 at 5:48 pm
RE: should america support Israel? - by CristW - July 12, 2014 at 3:57 pm
RE: should america support Israel? - by Bad Writer - July 12, 2014 at 4:15 pm
RE: should america support Israel? - by A Theist - July 12, 2014 at 11:08 pm
RE: should america support Israel? - by bberryhill0 - July 12, 2014 at 4:40 pm
RE: should america support Israel? - by Lek - July 12, 2014 at 6:34 pm
RE: should america support Israel? - by bberryhill0 - July 12, 2014 at 5:59 pm
RE: should america support Israel? - by A Theist - July 12, 2014 at 7:49 pm
RE: should america support Israel? - by Bad Writer - July 12, 2014 at 7:02 pm
RE: should america support Israel? - by bberryhill0 - July 12, 2014 at 11:02 pm
RE: should america support Israel? - by bberryhill0 - July 12, 2014 at 11:26 pm
RE: should america support Israel? - by Bad Writer - July 13, 2014 at 12:50 am
RE: should america support Israel? - by A Theist - July 13, 2014 at 5:45 am
RE: should america support Israel? - by Bad Writer - July 13, 2014 at 11:17 am
RE: should america support Israel? - by bberryhill0 - July 13, 2014 at 11:50 am
RE: should america support Israel? - by Brian37 - July 13, 2014 at 12:12 pm
RE: should america support Israel? - by bberryhill0 - July 13, 2014 at 12:24 pm
RE: should america support Israel? - by Brian37 - July 13, 2014 at 12:41 pm
RE: should america support Israel? - by Lek - July 14, 2014 at 2:15 pm
Re: should america support Israel? - by bberryhill0 - July 13, 2014 at 1:10 pm
RE: should america support Israel? - by Brian37 - July 13, 2014 at 1:23 pm
Re: should america support Israel? - by bberryhill0 - July 13, 2014 at 1:48 pm
RE: should america support Israel? - by Brian37 - July 13, 2014 at 2:21 pm
RE: should america support Israel? - by Lek - July 13, 2014 at 10:30 pm
Re: should america support Israel? - by bberryhill0 - July 13, 2014 at 2:49 pm
RE: should america support Israel? - by Brian37 - July 13, 2014 at 5:06 pm
RE: should america support Israel? - by bberryhill0 - July 13, 2014 at 5:11 pm
RE: should america support Israel? - by Bad Writer - July 13, 2014 at 6:43 pm
RE: should america support Israel? - by bberryhill0 - July 13, 2014 at 10:20 pm
RE: should america support Israel? - by bberryhill0 - July 13, 2014 at 10:56 pm
RE: should america support Israel? - by psychoslice - July 14, 2014 at 1:44 am
RE: should america support Israel? - by Bad Writer - July 14, 2014 at 10:22 am
RE: should america support Israel? - by Cato - July 14, 2014 at 3:21 pm
RE: should america support Israel? - by bberryhill0 - July 14, 2014 at 2:52 pm
RE: should america support Israel? - by CristW - July 16, 2014 at 4:17 am
RE: should america support Israel? - by Cato - July 16, 2014 at 4:56 am
RE: should america support Israel? - by bberryhill0 - July 17, 2014 at 11:02 am
RE: should america support Israel? - by Anomalocaris - August 5, 2014 at 8:52 am
RE: should america support Israel? - by Oldm8 - August 5, 2014 at 7:01 am
RE: should america support Israel? - by Cato - August 5, 2014 at 8:49 am
RE: should america support Israel? - by Brian37 - August 5, 2014 at 7:16 am
RE: should america support Israel? - by little_monkey - August 5, 2014 at 3:20 pm
RE: should america support Israel? - by Oldm8 - August 5, 2014 at 1:20 pm
RE: should america support Israel? - by Cato - August 5, 2014 at 1:58 pm
RE: should america support Israel? - by Neo-Scholastic - August 5, 2014 at 1:25 pm
RE: should america support Israel? - by Anomalocaris - August 5, 2014 at 2:13 pm
RE: should america support Israel? - by Oldm8 - August 5, 2014 at 2:50 pm
RE: should america support Israel? - by Anomalocaris - August 5, 2014 at 3:29 pm
RE: should america support Israel? - by little_monkey - August 5, 2014 at 3:49 pm
RE: should america support Israel? - by Anomalocaris - August 5, 2014 at 3:57 pm
RE: should america support Israel? - by little_monkey - August 5, 2014 at 4:08 pm
RE: should america support Israel? - by Thumpalumpacus - August 5, 2014 at 8:06 pm
RE: should america support Israel? - by little_monkey - August 6, 2014 at 7:57 am
RE: should america support Israel? - by Anomalocaris - August 5, 2014 at 4:33 pm
RE: should america support Israel? - by little_monkey - August 5, 2014 at 4:39 pm
RE: should america support Israel? - by Anomalocaris - August 5, 2014 at 4:42 pm
RE: should america support Israel? - by little_monkey - August 5, 2014 at 4:56 pm
RE: should america support Israel? - by bberryhill0 - August 5, 2014 at 5:00 pm
RE: should america support Israel? - by little_monkey - August 5, 2014 at 5:13 pm
RE: should america support Israel? - by Anomalocaris - August 5, 2014 at 5:16 pm
RE: should america support Israel? - by Anomalocaris - August 5, 2014 at 5:09 pm
RE: should america support Israel? - by Anomalocaris - August 6, 2014 at 9:40 am
RE: should america support Israel? - by little_monkey - August 6, 2014 at 11:31 am
RE: should america support Israel? - by Anomalocaris - August 6, 2014 at 3:04 pm
RE: should america support Israel? - by little_monkey - August 6, 2014 at 3:31 pm
RE: should america support Israel? - by Thumpalumpacus - August 6, 2014 at 3:58 pm
RE: should america support Israel? - by little_monkey - August 6, 2014 at 5:05 pm
RE: should america support Israel? - by Thumpalumpacus - August 6, 2014 at 5:21 pm
RE: should america support Israel? - by little_monkey - August 6, 2014 at 5:52 pm
RE: should america support Israel? - by Thumpalumpacus - August 6, 2014 at 6:07 pm
RE: should america support Israel? - by little_monkey - August 6, 2014 at 7:01 pm
RE: should america support Israel? - by Anomalocaris - August 6, 2014 at 7:07 pm
RE: should america support Israel? - by little_monkey - August 6, 2014 at 7:28 pm
RE: should america support Israel? - by Thumpalumpacus - August 6, 2014 at 7:55 pm
RE: should america support Israel? - by Thumpalumpacus - August 6, 2014 at 3:01 pm
RE: should america support Israel? - by The Grand Nudger - August 6, 2014 at 3:49 pm
RE: should america support Israel? - by Anomalocaris - August 6, 2014 at 6:06 pm
RE: should america support Israel? - by Anomalocaris - August 6, 2014 at 7:38 pm
RE: should america support Israel? - by little_monkey - August 7, 2014 at 6:48 am
RE: should america support Israel? - by Zack - August 6, 2014 at 8:13 pm
RE: should america support Israel? - by Anomalocaris - August 6, 2014 at 8:28 pm
RE: should america support Israel? - by bberryhill0 - August 6, 2014 at 9:08 pm
RE: should america support Israel? - by Anomalocaris - August 6, 2014 at 9:39 pm
RE: should america support Israel? - by The Grand Nudger - August 6, 2014 at 9:09 pm
RE: should america support Israel? - by Thumpalumpacus - August 7, 2014 at 2:52 pm
RE: should america support Israel? - by little_monkey - August 7, 2014 at 4:11 pm
RE: should america support Israel? - by bberryhill0 - August 6, 2014 at 9:54 pm
RE: should america support Israel? - by Anomalocaris - August 6, 2014 at 10:06 pm
RE: should america support Israel? - by bberryhill0 - August 6, 2014 at 10:20 pm
RE: should america support Israel? - by Anomalocaris - August 6, 2014 at 11:29 pm
RE: should america support Israel? - by bberryhill0 - August 6, 2014 at 11:50 pm
RE: should america support Israel? - by Anomalocaris - August 6, 2014 at 11:59 pm
RE: should america support Israel? - by Welsh cake - August 7, 2014 at 12:05 am
Re: RE: should america support Israel? - by bberryhill0 - August 7, 2014 at 12:20 am
RE: should america support Israel? - by Anomalocaris - August 7, 2014 at 12:29 am
RE: should america support Israel? - by bberryhill0 - August 7, 2014 at 12:39 am
RE: should america support Israel? - by Anomalocaris - August 7, 2014 at 12:51 am
RE: should america support Israel? - by bberryhill0 - August 7, 2014 at 1:02 am
RE: should america support Israel? - by Anomalocaris - August 7, 2014 at 1:30 am
RE: should america support Israel? - by The Grand Nudger - August 7, 2014 at 3:25 am
RE: should america support Israel? - by The Grand Nudger - August 7, 2014 at 7:48 am
RE: should america support Israel? - by little_monkey - August 7, 2014 at 8:52 am
RE: should america support Israel? - by Brian37 - August 7, 2014 at 2:29 pm
RE: should america support Israel? - by Thumpalumpacus - August 7, 2014 at 4:24 pm
RE: should america support Israel? - by little_monkey - August 7, 2014 at 4:49 pm
RE: should america support Israel? - by Crossless1 - August 7, 2014 at 5:07 pm
RE: should america support Israel? - by little_monkey - August 7, 2014 at 5:20 pm
RE: should america support Israel? - by Thumpalumpacus - August 8, 2014 at 9:01 am
RE: should america support Israel? - by A Theist - August 8, 2014 at 10:25 am
RE: should america support Israel? - by Thumpalumpacus - August 8, 2014 at 10:27 am
RE: should america support Israel? - by A Theist - August 8, 2014 at 10:45 am
RE: should america support Israel? - by Thumpalumpacus - August 8, 2014 at 10:53 am
RE: should america support Israel? - by little_monkey - August 8, 2014 at 11:20 am
RE: should america support Israel? - by Thumpalumpacus - August 8, 2014 at 8:48 pm
RE: should america support Israel? - by little_monkey - August 9, 2014 at 6:18 am
RE: should america support Israel? - by Thumpalumpacus - August 10, 2014 at 8:37 am
RE: should america support Israel? - by bennyboy - August 11, 2014 at 6:00 am
RE: should america support Israel? - by A Theist - August 8, 2014 at 12:45 pm
RE: should america support Israel? - by little_monkey - August 8, 2014 at 10:46 am
RE: should america support Israel? - by The Grand Nudger - August 7, 2014 at 5:22 pm
RE: should america support Israel? - by little_monkey - August 7, 2014 at 5:32 pm
RE: should america support Israel? - by The Grand Nudger - August 7, 2014 at 5:35 pm
RE: should america support Israel? - by little_monkey - August 7, 2014 at 5:59 pm
RE: should america support Israel? - by The Grand Nudger - August 7, 2014 at 6:03 pm
RE: should america support Israel? - by little_monkey - August 7, 2014 at 6:24 pm
RE: should america support Israel? - by The Grand Nudger - August 7, 2014 at 7:17 pm
RE: should america support Israel? - by little_monkey - August 7, 2014 at 7:38 pm
RE: should america support Israel? - by The Grand Nudger - August 7, 2014 at 7:53 pm
RE: should america support Israel? - by little_monkey - August 8, 2014 at 7:50 am
RE: should america support Israel? - by bberryhill0 - August 8, 2014 at 2:36 pm
RE: should america support Israel? - by Oldm8 - August 8, 2014 at 5:32 pm
RE: should america support Israel? - by little_monkey - August 8, 2014 at 5:43 pm
RE: should america support Israel? - by Oldm8 - August 8, 2014 at 6:43 pm
RE: should america support Israel? - by little_monkey - August 8, 2014 at 7:45 pm
RE: should america support Israel? - by A Theist - August 8, 2014 at 7:56 pm
RE: should america support Israel? - by bennyboy - August 8, 2014 at 10:24 pm
RE: should america support Israel? - by A Theist - August 9, 2014 at 11:11 am
RE: should america support Israel? - by Oldm8 - August 9, 2014 at 4:52 am
RE: should america support Israel? - by ccapehart1980 - August 10, 2014 at 6:08 am
RE: should america support Israel? - by Zack - August 10, 2014 at 7:17 am
RE: should america support Israel? - by little_monkey - August 10, 2014 at 8:37 am
RE: should america support Israel? - by Thumpalumpacus - August 10, 2014 at 8:14 pm
RE: should america support Israel? - by little_monkey - August 11, 2014 at 6:27 am
RE: should america support Israel? - by Thumpalumpacus - August 11, 2014 at 8:20 am
RE: should america support Israel? - by little_monkey - August 11, 2014 at 9:45 am
RE: should america support Israel? - by Thumpalumpacus - August 13, 2014 at 4:28 pm
RE: should america support Israel? - by little_monkey - August 13, 2014 at 5:48 pm
RE: should america support Israel? - by Thumpalumpacus - August 13, 2014 at 6:15 pm
RE: should america support Israel? - by little_monkey - August 13, 2014 at 8:06 pm
RE: should america support Israel? - by Brian37 - August 10, 2014 at 5:12 pm
RE: should america support Israel? - by Brian37 - August 10, 2014 at 9:51 pm
RE: should america support Israel? - by psychoslice - August 14, 2014 at 5:44 pm

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