(July 26, 2021 at 5:15 pm)Helios Wrote:Quote:That you believe wage labor is exploitative is clear. What's not clear is what you mean by exploitative.It's pretty clear
The only thing that's clear is that you don't know how to answer a simple question.
(July 26, 2021 at 5:15 pm)Helios Wrote:Quote:Is Brian exploiting me and my contributions because he has a penis and I do not? That's an imbalance.Not really because there is no labor relationship and no the possession of a penis isn't inherently exploitative unless we attach a power dynamic to it.
There is a labor relationship involved, that of my producing posts and alternately of him performing administrative tasks. Those are both labor relationships.
If you think there is no power dynamic attached to having a penis, then you are fucking ignorant and naive.
(July 26, 2021 at 5:15 pm)Helios Wrote:Quote: Are all imbalances exploitative?Nope talking about power imbalance in relation to labor in this case.
So not all imbalances are exploitative. At least we're getting somewhere. Therefore an imbalance is a necessary condition for exploitation, but not a sufficient condition for exploitation. What additional elements are required for exploitation. Further on you emphasize that a specific kind of power dynamic is involved. If your definition is to avoid circularity, there must be some characteristic of the specific power dynamic between labor and capital besides it simply being a relationship involving labor and capital. (Because if that is the only distinction, what you're saying boils down to, "Wage labor is exploitative because it is wage labor." Wage labor may be exploitative for many reasons but not simply for being wage labor. That would be vapid and meaningless.)
(July 26, 2021 at 5:15 pm)Helios Wrote:Quote:If so, how do you determine who is exploiting who?By the power imbalance in labor relations in this case
See above. What is the specific aspect of the wage-labor relationship that makes it exploitative?
(July 26, 2021 at 5:15 pm)Helios Wrote:Quote:I seem to be exploiting Jeff Bezos' desire to be wealthy by ordering things from Amazon.Nope buying something from Amazon is not exploiting Jeff Bezos there isn't the same kind of power dynamic.
What kind of power dynamic is required? There are a billion power dynamics. For this conversation to be meaningful, the wage-labor power dynamic must fall into a category which other relationships involving power dynamics must also fall into, otherwise your answer is wage-labor is exploitative because it just is. That's ipse dixit and won't fly.
(July 26, 2021 at 5:15 pm)Helios Wrote:Quote:All you're doing is blathering.All your doing is getting upset for no reason. Take a deep breath and calm down.
Why don't you mind your own p's and q's instead of telling me what to do, fuckface? If I want to get upset, which I haven't done, I'll go there after my druthers.
With all due respect, go fuck yourself.
(July 26, 2021 at 5:15 pm)Helios Wrote:Quote:That wage labor is exploitative doesn't answer why wage labor is exploitative, what does it mean for a relationship to be exploitative, which was the question.As I have said above By the power imbalance in labor relations and the fact workers have to sell their labor.
Neither of those makes wage-labor exploitative in and of themselves (again, presuming your meaning is not vapid). So what about those facts makes it exploitative?