(December 1, 2018 at 10:38 am)Cherub786 Wrote: [quote='downbeatplumb' pid='1861920' dateline='1543667947']
Some as undefined natural phenomena.
Things that could not have caused it.
Any intelligent agency.
There is one way we know for something to gain intelligence and that is by being part of an active evolutionary system. Before the universe came into existence the pre-requisites for intelligence were not present.
So it was not any form of god.
(December 1, 2018 at 10:38 am)Cherub786 Wrote: What is the difference between a natural phenomenon and an intelligent one and how are you sure that the cause for the expansion of the universe is a natural phenomenon and not an intelligent one, or a conscious one (these are 2 questions)
A natural phenomenon is one that is not caused by the purposeful action of an intelligent agency.
i.e. a rockfall caused by erosion over time natural, someone pushing the rocks over intelligent agency.
the presence of intelligence in no space and no time is an impossibility then the cause would have to be non-intelligent and natural
(December 1, 2018 at 10:38 am)Cherub786 Wrote: A third question, you state that intelligence can only exist after an active evolutionary system and that the pre requisite for intelligence were not present before the existence of the universe. What do you mean by this and what is the evidence for this assertion?
What do you need to become intelligent?
What is needed is a reason to be intelligent, you need a predator prey relationship or some such thing. For AI and robots we have an outside agency setting the relationship.
So without evolution to get to evolution your god would require a greater being to give it intelligence gods god if you like and then you get the where did that god get its intelligence and so on.
It is much easier to posit a naturally occurring universe that did not need anything hyper impossible such as the Abrahamic god to initiate it.
Using Ockhams razer we can discount the idea of god as an initiator.
You have asked for evidence for what other than a god could have started the universe, first I would like to see what evidence you have for the process god used and the evidence you have for that so I can comment.
So how did god make the universe?
Where did it get the stuff?
What is your evidence for the above?
i'll wait.
You can fix ignorance, you can't fix stupid.
Tinkety Tonk and down with the Nazis.