Quote: What I just read is that you don't have any real foundation on which to judge God.
If you did just read what I wrote, I actually do. I gave you a few examples of many, that I could have given. I can look at the world and the universe, and see chaos, death, and destruction. I don’t see any divine intervention of love, judging by that, I gave you two options of how I could see a god, and the third option being the most likely, that he doesn’t exist. Of course, there are good things happening everyday too, I don’t focus on the bad, but when people claim that there is a loving god out there that cares for us, and answers our prayers, I’m going to say, “I see absolutely no evidence of that, actually, I see strong evidence to the contrary, unless you think god has favorites.”
Quote: I can't tell you are wrong because there is no right and wrong. When you don't start with God you do as you did and start with yourself, but if everyone is starting with themselves then there is not true foundation. People change and are only alive for a short amount of time. You can't build a true coherent existence off of people if you actually want to live by what is right and wrong.
There is right and wrong for most people. Many people will have different stances on abortion, legalization of drugs, marriage, and capital punishment. There will be many different opinions of these things, even within the christian community. So, there really isn’t an objective right and wrong, there is only opinion, on many issues. And, why don’t you tell me what is right and wrong? God says don’t kill, but orders people to kill in the bible. It seems a little hypocritical. What is right, killing or not killing? If you get your morals from the bible, you’re basically just picking and choosing what you feel to be moral, because of the contradictory and hypocritical nature of the bible. Instead of getting my morals from a primitive book of barbarism, I get it from logic, emotion, and observation. I don’t pick up a book, and say, “Ok, I’m following everything in that now, even if I do feel that it is evil.” That’s what crazy people do. Of course, that’s my opinion.
Quote: Now if you are going to be intellectually honest with your world view you can do whatever you want to people and people can do whatever they want to you and there will be no right and no wrong.
I’m sure that you’ll find that I am intellectually honest, but maybe not, because I disagree with many evil things in your book of morality. I can make a claim, and I can back it up, and if I can’t, I own up to it, and apologize. I have yet to run into a theist on here, that makes claims that they can’t back up, or that dodges logical questions, that’s called intellectual dishonesty. Anyways, there can be right and wrong, and it’s subjective. It seems that you are suggesting that is no right and wrong, because we don’t believe in a god to keep us in check. If you actually think you can’t be moral without a god, then you are the immoral one, in my opinion. If god keeps you from being an immoral person, I feel sorry for you. More to your point, I feel, yes, people can do whatever they want to each other, but that’s why we came up with real consequences to these things we consider to be wrong, rather than just man-made threats of hell that allegedly occur after you die.
Quote: You will also have to stop claiming religion is doing anything positive or negative or that God is good or bad because that definition does not exist in your world view.
Actually, no, I don’t. I have the right to my opinion and my morality, thanks.. And again, don’t be dishonest and put words in my mouth, there is right and wrong in my world view, and those may change over time. Just because we disagree on some morality issues, doesn’t mean my opinion is irrelevant. I can give you actual reasons why I believe what I believe, you give me, “It’s in a book that I’m forced to follow, because I was raised in a christian household.” That’s my guess, because if not, and you found the bible as a teen or an adult, and believed it, you are out of your mind. Yes, I’ll happily back up all of those claims with real world evidence and with my morality, if necessary. Usually that proves useless, because many theists don’t like to hear the bad things in their bible, they just like defend them.
Quote: I can claim what is good or bad because I have a standard that doesn't change and that is God.
Again, NOT TRUE. In the OT, God is mostly a megalomaniacal, jealous, genocidal, petty, immoral, anthropomorphic psychopath, and in the NT, he has some of those judgmental qualities, but became more of a loving being. Definitely not entirely, but his morals improved somewhat in the NT. He still throws you in hell, if you don’t accept him as a savior. The only evidence of jesus that is accepted by christians, is the evidence of him in the gospels, which isn’t good enough evidence for a rational human being. Even if there was good evidence for his existence, that doesn’t mean he did all of these supernatural miracles. That takes a MASSIVE leap of faith to just believe that those things actually happened.
Quote: He isn't just the standard for good but for all truth. He wants to correct your brokenness and made that possible by dieing for your sins on the cross all you have to do is repent, or stop living your life on your own terms, and seek His forgiveness as your Lord and Savior.
Here’s an example of him not being good, Ex 21:20-21. Please be honest, and say, you’re right that is not good, not everything god says in the bible is good, or say I adhere to that morality. In that case, I’ll happily stop talking to your extremely immoral self. And for the rest of that stuff that you said, back it up or don’t bring it up. And, yes, I’ve tried to seek him out many times, but he doesn’t care to seek me back.
Anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that 'my ignorance is just as good as your knowledge.' -Isaac Asimov-
