If you were ever a theist...

[MTL]

EDIT: Ok, think I get you now - your idea is that there is (or may be) a real god, but it fits none of the descriptions nor identities which the religious have asserted. I believed that for awhile, before I came to understand more the underlying conflict between science and religion. Scientific fact isn't mystery, therefore a found creator, however great (or not) would never be a god because finding, observing, and explaining it would downgrade it's "God" status to "Great" (or "Goob").

Ok, so you're only willing to use the term "God" for any one, great Creator of All Things,
as long as that Creator remains a mystery.

Unlike you, I take no issue with continuing to call such an entity by the name of "God",
or rather I think it is not really worth quibbling about,
because even if we come to know that Being, and understand Him,
it doesn't mean that He is any less the Ultimate Creator,
simply because He is no longer mysterious.

Lightning was once deemed supernatural.

We came to understand the science behind it.

But it's still lightning.

It's power is not diminished simply because we understand it better.

The Creator of the Universe would not cease to be the Creator of the Universe
just because we eventually come to know or understand Him...or even be equal to Him.

Maybe that was His plan, all along

...it may only be Religion that wants us to think of God in terms of a mysterious Being
that jealously holds sway over our ignorance and fear of Him,
thus continuing His power over us.

Again, the Religious concept of God that we have been taught may well be erroneous.

It may be that God exists, and is not jealous or wrathful at all,
and gave us Science, and a brain to understand it,
with the ultimate intention of us finding Him.

Maybe in that sense we really are all Sons and Daughters of God,
and He looks forward to the day we mature and can look at Him at eye-level,
like any parent does.

Again, I don't personally, necessarily believe in God, myself; I merely allow for it;
partly out of scientific objectivity;
but also because I think that it allows a stepping-stone for Theists,
which outright Atheism does not.

I don't mind Deism.

What I resent is Religion telling us WHAT to believe ABOUT God,
and telling us to shut out Science to do it.

So,

I raise the point that if there IS a God,
it very well might be that our sophisticated brains, our curiousity, our five senses, Evolution, and Science,
are the tools He gave us to find Him, in the long run;

to illustrate to Theists, that, for all they know,
in their zeal to hold up their fake religious "truth" about God,
they may well be working against the real Truth...and therefore against God.

EDIT:

I have also, similarly, tried to illustrate to Theists that, as part of the garbage of Religion,
is the idea that "Sin" is a concept that originated with God,
when it almost certainly originated with man.

Take the Catholic Church and it's concept of the Seven Deadly Sins

(off the top of my head and in no particular order...merely for the sake of making a point):

Greed
Gluttony
Sloth
Lust
Pride
Envy
Wrath

My first observation:  this list has some redundancies:

Ever punch a large number into a calculator and keep hitting the "=" button?

It always reduces to zero, eventually.

That is the common denominator.

Well, similarly,
I think that this list of "sins" hasn't really been reduced to their lowest common denominator.

When people act greedy or gluttonous or slothful or proud or envious or wrathful,
it is often motivated by a deeper-seated issue;

I think you could argue that all human behavior
can basically be reduced even further down,
to either LUST or FEAR,
that has gotten out of balance.

My second observation:

It is extremely telling, to my mind, that FEAR didn't make the list.

And it should.

If you are a Christian, you should have nothing to Fear.

To Fear anything in this life, other than God, is a demonstration of lack of Faith, isn't it?
And therefore a Sin, right??

Consider the Apostles out in a boat with Jesus, terrified of the storm
and begging Jesus to calm the angry waters;
Jesus chastised them for their Fear, and therefore their obvious lack of Faith.

So why didn't the Catholic Church, in its infinite wisdom,
see fit to include Fear in this list of fundamental Sins,
since Faith is of paramount importance??

Of course, we as non-Theists realize it is very obviously because FEAR is what Religion uses to keep the flock in line.

It is part of their classic smoke-and-mirrors:
they use Promises of Heaven,
and when that fails, Threats of Hell,
to keep people in line.


They WANT you to be afraid.

So they're not going to make it a sin to be afraid, even though they should.


Now, having illustrated that FEAR should be on this list, and isn't,

I also need to point out that LUST, in and of itself, is NOT a "sin" at all!!

Rather, I again argue to Theists that LUST and FEAR might, again,
be regarded to create BALANCE
....as part of God's design.

LUST:  All the appetites that drive us forward...not just for sex, but for food, air....Lust for Life.

FEAR:  The brakes on the car...that which gives us pause; keeps us safe


And I would posit that if there really is any such thing as "sin" it is not simply "Lust", in and of itself,
but rather when these two get out of balance:

LUST, when out of control, becomes obsessive or addictive behavior

FEAR, when out of control, becomes a phobia that keeps you from living life


And so sick and convoluted is the effect that Religion has on people,
that even while Religion claims to be upholding God's law,

if anything,

Religion is perverting the natural law
and telling people to feel bad about their natural, God-given Lust.

it is the same reason I point out to Theists that homosexuality may well be part of God's design, too,
for all we know,
and to criticize anything that occurs naturally is to risk criticizing God,

again, because we come back to the cognitive dissonance that Religion asks us to accept:

The difference between TRUTH, vs their religious "truth".