(May 16, 2017 at 10:17 am)Alasdair Ham Wrote:(May 16, 2017 at 10:05 am)Catholic_Lady Wrote: What about exercising? I certainly suffered when my cross country coach had me run endless laps around the trails. Both when I was doing it, and for the next 2 days of being incredibly sore. Also when I stayed up for hours doing homework in college, exhausted mentally an physically and with a sore neck.
If in the long run exercise gives you better physical and mental health and happiness then it's worth it.
Quote:What if you steal from someone and they never even notice you stole from them? Clearly you aren't causing any suffering.
They wouldn't suffer from it but they would have been perhaps happier if you didn't... perhaps a world where they still had what you stole they would be happier.
Quote: But stealing is still wrong. Same with lying or cheating, assuming no one ever finds out and no suffering comes from it.
No. The whole reason we believe it's wrong in the first place is because they are activites that hurt people.
Quote:I don't think suffering = wrongness, in and of itself. I don't think it makes sense to base morality on suffering.
I think basing out moral values on what we positively and negatively value is the only thing that does make sense. And ultimately all anyone cares about is the well being of themselves and others who they care about.
So as I said in another post, suffering can often times be for the best. That doesn't really jive with saying that suffering is inherently immoral in and of itself, and that suffering literally = wrongness. And as such, doesn't jive with basing morality entirely on suffering.
Also, if I cheat on my husband and he never finds out, it won't hurt him. He won't suffer from it or be less happy for it. If I steal $10 from a rich person so that I can buy a pack of cigarettes, and they never find out, it won't effect them in the least bit. No suffering will come to that rich person and they won't be less happy.
I think there are many holes and flaws in the notion that immorality is entirely based on suffering.
"Of course, everyone will claim they respect someone who tries to speak the truth, but in reality, this is a rare quality. Most respect those who speak truths they agree with, and their respect for the speaking only extends as far as their realm of personal agreement. It is less common, almost to the point of becoming a saintly virtue, that someone truly respects and loves the truth seeker, even when their conclusions differ wildly."
-walsh
-walsh
